Ep 1x8 Desperate Souls...Discussion?

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

Are we doing episode discussions in this comm? What did you all think of it?


It was a terrific ep, and I'm glad we got some backstory on my favorite character--Rumpelstiltskin--but I found a lot of loose ends in it, and perhaps this was on purpose.

1.) So, Rumpel has a son. We know from inference that he has not followed him into Storybrooke--or at least, he's not with Mr. Gold. The episode ends with Rumpel saving his son from the soldiers, and it's left there.

2.) Why is Rumpel so terrified at receiving The Dark One's power? What is so inherently awful about it? He seemed pretty happy to have it, when he saved his son. I'm sure I've missed something, but I don't quite get it.

3.) I'm not so sure I buy Mr. Gold's story about having Emma stand up to him being part of his plan, all along. He seemed rather upset in the auditorium...though that may have been part of the act. On the other hand, he is pretty much her "frenemy," now, and she still owes him a favor. So how is the Emma/Mr. Gold relationship so different from Sheriff Graham/Regina's? After all, she was holding something over his head, too. Or rather, in his chest.

4.) Who is "THE DARK ONE?" Is this another LOST-style conundrum? He's not the devil, though he does seem to strike deals for souls.

5.) Rumpel seems to have a reason for continuously wanting to bargain for children. I'm sure it has something to do with the loss of his son, whenever that's going to be revealed. Perhaps it also ties in with certain speculation surrounding Regina.


OK, that's all I've got. I'm guessing it's fair to warn that any comments may also be spoilery.

Comments

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

He was scared because he knew it would corrupt, he knew he made the wrong choice but it was too late.

Given how much foresight Gold has, I'm sure it was all an act. He's pretty awesome like that.

I'm also sure we'll eventually get our answers but until then, I'm going to say Bay rejects Dark!Daddy and runs away or leaves or goes to war or dies, leaving him alone. Rumps snaps and goes crazier and crazier with the years and then we have the Rumpel we knew in episode one. Mad as a hatter at points but he has the foresight and power to be needed by everyone, good and evil.

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

Sounds pretty good to me.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Given how much foresight Gold has, I'm sure it was all an act. He's pretty awesome like that.

Exactly! I have to admit that I was fooled while I was watching but by the end it all added up to a plan.

[wake-the-dragon.livejournal.com]

So how is the Emma/Mr. Gold relationship so different from Sheriff Graham/Regina's?

Well, she's not his sex slave.

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

More's the pity

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

I'm now terrified Henry's dad is Rumples (Mr. Gold's?) son's.

For 2 - I think it was just normal terror. He's bottom of the barrel type of guy, cowardly. He'd naturally shy away from anything above his station, because in his mind he would fail, and be beaten. Then there was the desperation factor, when he would do anything to save his son, even confront his worst fears.

3) I think it was his plan, though it may be because I watch too much Leverage. He made it really easy for her to figure out - leaving the firestarter in plain view, after calling her into his shop so that she could see (well, SMELL) it. If he wanted it to remain a mystery, it would have been. And he had to know that if nothing else, Emma's tendency to react against any form of control or manipulation would lead to her turning on him, even if she wasn't going to ponder the idea of being a good guy.

I think it's different because Regina literally had Graham's heart. Other than that... I don't think it's different, given we saw Graham start to rebel. Interesting dynamics, especially when considering who's acting in who's interests. Is it a problem?

4 - hmmmm. I'm just wondering, for now, where the hell that dagger is.

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

Perhaps this is the stranger who will be visiting Storybrooke in an upcoming ep, though God knows, I don't know how they'd work that out with the whole "They can't leave Storybrooke" problem.

As for any problem I might have with Mr. Gold holding something over Emma...I have no problem with that, AT ALL. :-D

Re: #4 I don't think I ever want them to find that dagger. I'd like Robert Carlyle to stay with the show forever.

[lar_laughs.livejournal.com]

Henry's dad being Gold's son?!?!?!!!! Brilliant! This is why I always skim these sorts of posts. For something like this. You're giving me fic ideas. Yes, you are.

And I don't think Mr. Gold ever hides anything. He doesn't need to. He's used to people rolling over and playing dead when they should confront him. I think he LOVES Emma for standing up to him. Who knows if that was really his plan or not but he's had a long time to learn how to twist things around to work for him.

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

I'm now terrified Henry's dad is Rumples (Mr. Gold's?) son's

I've heard this theory before. I don't know what to think. But since he's not Rumpelstiltskin's real son, it doesn't make them related at least.

I also agree that it was his plan all along.

Someone said they think he buried the dagger in the forest. Would he have the dagger though? Does he remember his past? I know they said one person knows and that's Regina but it does seem like he knows as much as Regina does.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

And he had to know that if nothing else, Emma's tendency to react against any form of control or manipulation would lead to her turning on him

Very true! It's one the first things he learned about her with Regina and the tree and the chainsaw. Now that makes me wonder how much of involving her in the Ashly situation was a setup to get her to make a deal with him. Hmmmm...

He is so damn sneaky and manipulative! I love it. :D

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

The annoying thing is, it will take FOREVER to have another episode centered on Rumpel.

[goddessastra.livejournal.com]

Some how, after this episode...maybe the reason rumple deals in children..is the fact he lost his own son and he is trying to find a replacement because he can't yet go through the process of greiving and he is in the denial stage...

i am just glad for rumple in the real world...since rumple as an evil imp...no thanks. his teeth...i can't get past grimey teeth D:

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

maybe the reason rumple deals in children

Hmm, that makes sense.

[icki-akki.livejournal.com]

I guess this is me being dark but there might be a sinister reason as well. Maybe he wants others to be robbed of what he's been robbed of? There was that moment of potential sincerity with Emma but who knows what a manipulative bastard Mr. Gold could turn out to be.

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

Did Rumpelstiltskin kill his son? It sure seemed like that was what was going to happen.

[blossombunny.livejournal.com]

He's not Henry's dad... baelfire wouldn't have been able to leave storybrooke

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

I agree. I don't see how it would work. Sometimes I think people are just reading too much into things but it's great that people do that with this show.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

how is the Emma/Mr. Gold relationship so different from Sheriff Graham/Regina's?

Well, Emma may have played into his hands, but that's because he knew that he could count on her overwhelming sense of morality and her conscience to make her do the right thing. It worked for him because he WANTED her to be Sheriff, but it's not going to work in another situation if he wants something underhanded and corrupt done. Whereas Graham was fine going along with Regina's schemes, he wouldn't fuss at doing whatever sneaky thing she wanted done (okay, so we saw him object once, but that only because it was Emma, and he was still willing to arrest her if Regina said to). Totally different, imo.

[miz-tith.livejournal.com]

Unfortunetly, there is no way for Bae to be Henry's father.
When Archie made his deal with Rumplestiltskin Gepetto was a young boy. and he was already the Rumple we know and love. So for Bae to be Henry's father would REALLY be a big step.
There is the chance that he is the original Henry though.
My personal theory before that little bit of canon sideswiped me was that Bae could have been Graham.

I hate it when canon ruins a great theory :(

[pwalkeri.livejournal.com]

Yes! I wonder, too, if Bae is Regina's father. And the plot thickens.... ;D

[chloris.livejournal.com]

I'm still in complete flail mode about this episode it was so good and not just because Rumpel is my favorite character. It all came together in this episode. AND Robert Carlyle was as AMAZING as I thought he would be.

Excellent discussion questions. :D

1. Rumpel getting the Dark power occurred at least 40-50 years ago if not longer so his son could be long dead. However, his grandson or granddaughter might show up!

2. Maybe it's just that he realized that he was fooled. Or maybe the thought of getting it was good but actually getting it he knew was bad when it happened. (He could feel himself change and not in a way he wanted.)

3. I do buy it since I was shocked that he would be so sloppy as to get caught setting the fire. As for how their relationship is different, I don't see Gold trying to control Emma but rather using his knowledge of her character to move her in the direction he wants. If you are talking about the favor it is one she AGREED to, willingly, and not something he extracted from her.

[madwitch58.livejournal.com]

i had a thought , what if Rumple could not only send Bae to a where but a when as well.

[pwalkeri.livejournal.com]

My favorite "YOU GO GOLD" moment was with he and Regina in his shop. She's giving him a hard time about technicalities, and then totally falls into one with the whole "She's not his mother. Not legally."

I loved everything about Regina. And Emma called her Gina and I ALMOST DIED OKAY. I wished we would have seen more MMB/Emma, but c'est la vie.

I found most of the Fairytale Rumple stuff to be... fairly boring :-/ And was super disappoint. I'm hoping that maybe it picks up a bit in the next episode :D Also, I think he makes deals involving children definitely in relation to losing Bae. Maybe he wants everyone else to suffer the way he has?? D:

THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR FUTURE EPISODES/SPECULATION

[wicked-reigns.livejournal.com]

I'm actually pretty sure that Mr. Gold/Rumplestiltskin is Henry's grandfather.

Here's why: there is a stranger that arrives in town, he has ties to Emma/Emma's past = possibly Henry's father = the actor's name will be Eion Bailey? Like Bae? :P Maybe I am just reading too much into it. But he DOES look like an older Bae in my opinion:

(http://imgur.com/dmBfO)

Re: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR FUTURE EPISODES/SPECULATION

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

I saw that bit of casting, and who knows...? But the ACTOR'S name is "Bailey," not the character. He seems of appropriate age to be Henry's dad. Should be interesting.

[rumpelgold.livejournal.com]

One tiny thing is overlooked.... people x'D

Baelfire is Rumplestiltskin's son and if he had a child Rumplestiltskin would be the grandfather... erm... x'D technically not really?

The Dark One reveals that Baelfire isn't truly a son of Rumplestiltskin. He says the boy's a bastard. Of course this can be a lie but seeing Rumpel/Gold as the Dark One seems to know almost everything and so far hasn't truly lied yet we can assume the Dark One is correct on this one.

Which complicates the nice theories <_< *sighs*

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

Well, I did mention that above. *g* but I can see why you wouldn't see it, I've said way too much in this thread, lol.

I wouldn't want the show to go there, but if they do then there's nothing I can do about it.