Ep 1x8 Desperate Souls...Discussion?

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

Are we doing episode discussions in this comm? What did you all think of it?


It was a terrific ep, and I'm glad we got some backstory on my favorite character--Rumpelstiltskin--but I found a lot of loose ends in it, and perhaps this was on purpose.

1.) So, Rumpel has a son. We know from inference that he has not followed him into Storybrooke--or at least, he's not with Mr. Gold. The episode ends with Rumpel saving his son from the soldiers, and it's left there.

2.) Why is Rumpel so terrified at receiving The Dark One's power? What is so inherently awful about it? He seemed pretty happy to have it, when he saved his son. I'm sure I've missed something, but I don't quite get it.

3.) I'm not so sure I buy Mr. Gold's story about having Emma stand up to him being part of his plan, all along. He seemed rather upset in the auditorium...though that may have been part of the act. On the other hand, he is pretty much her "frenemy," now, and she still owes him a favor. So how is the Emma/Mr. Gold relationship so different from Sheriff Graham/Regina's? After all, she was holding something over his head, too. Or rather, in his chest.

4.) Who is "THE DARK ONE?" Is this another LOST-style conundrum? He's not the devil, though he does seem to strike deals for souls.

5.) Rumpel seems to have a reason for continuously wanting to bargain for children. I'm sure it has something to do with the loss of his son, whenever that's going to be revealed. Perhaps it also ties in with certain speculation surrounding Regina.


OK, that's all I've got. I'm guessing it's fair to warn that any comments may also be spoilery.

Comments

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

He was scared because he knew it would corrupt, he knew he made the wrong choice but it was too late.

Given how much foresight Gold has, I'm sure it was all an act. He's pretty awesome like that.

I'm also sure we'll eventually get our answers but until then, I'm going to say Bay rejects Dark!Daddy and runs away or leaves or goes to war or dies, leaving him alone. Rumps snaps and goes crazier and crazier with the years and then we have the Rumpel we knew in episode one. Mad as a hatter at points but he has the foresight and power to be needed by everyone, good and evil.

[wake-the-dragon.livejournal.com]

So how is the Emma/Mr. Gold relationship so different from Sheriff Graham/Regina's?

Well, she's not his sex slave.

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

I'm now terrified Henry's dad is Rumples (Mr. Gold's?) son's.

For 2 - I think it was just normal terror. He's bottom of the barrel type of guy, cowardly. He'd naturally shy away from anything above his station, because in his mind he would fail, and be beaten. Then there was the desperation factor, when he would do anything to save his son, even confront his worst fears.

3) I think it was his plan, though it may be because I watch too much Leverage. He made it really easy for her to figure out - leaving the firestarter in plain view, after calling her into his shop so that she could see (well, SMELL) it. If he wanted it to remain a mystery, it would have been. And he had to know that if nothing else, Emma's tendency to react against any form of control or manipulation would lead to her turning on him, even if she wasn't going to ponder the idea of being a good guy.

I think it's different because Regina literally had Graham's heart. Other than that... I don't think it's different, given we saw Graham start to rebel. Interesting dynamics, especially when considering who's acting in who's interests. Is it a problem?

4 - hmmmm. I'm just wondering, for now, where the hell that dagger is.

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

More's the pity

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

Sounds pretty good to me.

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

Perhaps this is the stranger who will be visiting Storybrooke in an upcoming ep, though God knows, I don't know how they'd work that out with the whole "They can't leave Storybrooke" problem.

As for any problem I might have with Mr. Gold holding something over Emma...I have no problem with that, AT ALL. :-D

Re: #4 I don't think I ever want them to find that dagger. I'd like Robert Carlyle to stay with the show forever.

[maddarilke.livejournal.com]

The annoying thing is, it will take FOREVER to have another episode centered on Rumpel.

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

I'd lay odds it'll be Regina or someone who finds it - and she'd rather manipulate him for a while before taking the power on herself, since that leaves her vulnerable. Emma will end up with it, and find a way to break the curse. ;>

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

It'll probably be a proximity issue. They can't have taken the entirety of Fairy Tale land with them - there are thousands and thousands of peasants and the town is still a small one. So the kid might have gotten transported somewhere else, because Rumples juryrigged it, or because he was important enough to the story.

They can't get rid of Rumples. They just can't. D: D: D:

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

Regina flat out said the town is bigger than Emma realizes. She's just in the MAIN part of the town. We don't know how big it actually is. They WILL not get rid of Rumps, honestly they can't. But I will be furious if Gold is the father because it logically makes no damn sense, they cannot leave. They state that, if Emma had a one night stand with him, she'd effin remember him!

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

It's strongly implied that no one who was transported from FTland to the RW by the curse can leave. And a couple people have jumped to that conclusion. But do we really know, beyond all doubt, that there's no way to leave?

(Actually, with the way the writers are talking, we probably do and I'm just oblivious again *g*)

I'm thinking more it's Gold's son who's the father, not Gold himself. Because yeah, there's something very not cool about that, not to mention illogical.

[lar_laughs.livejournal.com]

Henry's dad being Gold's son?!?!?!!!! Brilliant! This is why I always skim these sorts of posts. For something like this. You're giving me fic ideas. Yes, you are.

And I don't think Mr. Gold ever hides anything. He doesn't need to. He's used to people rolling over and playing dead when they should confront him. I think he LOVES Emma for standing up to him. Who knows if that was really his plan or not but he's had a long time to learn how to twist things around to work for him.

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking more it's Gold's son who's the father, not Gold himself. Because yeah, there's something very not cool about that, not to mention illogical.

---
I'll take that over Gold being the dad but we have to think how far back was that episode set, his son could be dead by the time the Curse was inflicted. The timeline has mentioned as far back as Queen being Snows age. Then we have to think 28 years later on top of all that time...

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

*mopes* At least someone can benefit from that evil notion - I sorta ship Gold/Emma, and I see (fandom) obstacles trickling into place... *facepalm*

And I don't think Mr. Gold ever hides anything. He doesn't need to.

WORD. Even my mum was talking during the ep about how he was a liar and cheat and evil... He really isn't, he is merely extremely specific.

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

Aw hell, I hadn't even thought about timelines.

Though it's really only 18 years until he'd sleep with Emma. He's 14 at the ep. So at least 32, though Rumples would have had to be himself for a while to get that sort of reputation going.

Maybe Henry's father is Gold's Grandson? XP

[lar_laughs.livejournal.com]

I see Gold as more of a master manipulator. He isn't above EXPLOITING weakness which is ironic because he was pretty weak.

But it's like a person who's been poor winning the lottery. They start spending and spending and spending because they're so excited about finally having money but they never learned how to use it properly and they end up poorer than they started out. I think Gold intended to use his power for good like he told his son but then he got this extraordinary power and went sort of mad with it. And, quite possibly, he can't help it. From the sounds of it, the power knows how to exploit weakness. He's merely the vessel.

Shipping is always more fun when there are obstacles. If there weren't obstacles, it would be too easy!

[lar_laughs.livejournal.com]

But the more I think about it... I like the idea of Gold's son being someone else. Hmmm... I'm going to have to muse about this one for awhile. This puts a new spin on this idea I've had for awhile.

And, with that, I should say that I've NEVER right about these sorts of things.

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

It's going to be really interesting to see where fan writers take the character - we've seen so many similar types out there, and I'm almost afraid that on screen, no explanation is going to be (intense?) enough.

I definitely agree he's gone a bit nutters. As Rumples at least - the fact that he has a limp in Storybrooke makes me wonder too if this curse WAS his way out from under the Black Killer thing.

I love obstacles in my ships! :D The thing is I just had a beloved show end, where my fav pairing had the cross-gen thing PLUS doctor-patient PLUS ambiguous father/daughter aspects. Segments of the fandom were pretty rude and derisive, and can't do that again right now if Gold becomes "family" on top of the rest...

[lar_laughs.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes! It's sad how mean fandom can be. I like secondary characters and I've spent many years in many fandoms getting a lot of "Who's that? Isn't that an OC?" and then I have to explain that it was the random person in the second segment of the show or on page 59 twice.

You can't always help who you want to ship. If the plot turns against us, why should we give up the ship? It just means we have to work harder!

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

(and hide in a little Gold/Emma corner comm and only come out when steeled against the backlash.)

Eh. There was a lot of awesome moments for them this ep - I stalled out in the midst of a Gold/Emma fic waiting for this :D The bestest part - Gold really DOES have a sense of humour!

[goddessastra.livejournal.com]

Some how, after this episode...maybe the reason rumple deals in children..is the fact he lost his own son and he is trying to find a replacement because he can't yet go through the process of greiving and he is in the denial stage...

i am just glad for rumple in the real world...since rumple as an evil imp...no thanks. his teeth...i can't get past grimey teeth D:

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

THIS!

I'd be perfectly happy if that was the case. Call me a hypocrite, but it would be hot, as opposed to Graham/Regina. I wish more fic was written for Emma/Gold.

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

I'm now terrified Henry's dad is Rumples (Mr. Gold's?) son's

I've heard this theory before. I don't know what to think. But since he's not Rumpelstiltskin's real son, it doesn't make them related at least.

I also agree that it was his plan all along.

Someone said they think he buried the dagger in the forest. Would he have the dagger though? Does he remember his past? I know they said one person knows and that's Regina but it does seem like he knows as much as Regina does.

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

You can't always help who you want to ship. If the plot turns against us, why should we give up the ship? It just means we have to work harder!

I like the way you think! Regardless of what happens, I'll probably still ship them. I had no illusions that it would ever be canon.

[hafu-love.livejournal.com]

I can't wait to read your fic! :)