Episode Discussion 2x04: The Crocodile

[jadestrick.livejournal.com]

Episode Discussion 2x04: The Crocodile

Belle's disgust over Mr. Gold's continuing thirst for power comes to a head, and she threatens to leave him if he can't change his evil ways; the dwarves pick up their axes and try to find fairy dust in the Storybrooke mine; and a reunion with an old acquaintance could prove to be Belle's undoing. Meanwhile, back in the fairytale land that was, Rumplestiltskin attempts to save his wife, Milah, from being kidnapped by a band of cutthroat pirates.

P.S. Phew! Barely made it. Sorry for the delay. Wal-Mart had no less than 15 people in all 5/600 of its lines.

P.P.S. You all know it's really paining me to not use the picture I want up here. *meeps!!!*

Comments

[primreceded.livejournal.com]

Is the town that big, though? I can understand Jefferson, he was trapped under a freaking car, but Belle? You know, up until a few minutes ago obviously.

[paulownia.livejournal.com]

I can't muster any like for Rumple's first wife. I have no sympathy for her choice to leave her son. Honestly, I did not care when she died and as a result, I had a hard time with Hook and his whole revenge motivation.

I honestly would have preferred Hook without the baggage. While this complication gives him a reason to ally with Cora, it set him up to be another quasi-baddie in a very "grey" field of 'villains' .

My biggest fear is we're heading towards another LOST ending where even the worst guys are really not bad. They're just complicated.

I want to see some real evil. Just unapologetic evil.

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

I never finished Lost, so I don't know annoying that might be...

That said: I always figured an evil person with a complicated reason for being evil is more realistic than an unapologetic, heartless, ruthless, no remorse, no reason, just pure evil person. Sure they are easier to hate, but that's what makes an evil person with complications so amazing. ITS HARD to hate them. You can imagine yourself in their shoes. You can SEE their reasons and feel they COULD be justified. I'm not giving alls and nones here. Everyone has a breaking point.

It makes them real. That's how I feel anyway.

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

PS: I hate Rumple's wife. No one leaves their child for another man unless they are heartless. Sure she might have had true love, but even that shouldn't have stopped her from at least taking Baelfire with her. Most women who want to be out of a relationship at least take their children with them, and those that don't.... well I consider them to be damaged somehow. Perhaps she was damaged.

I loved how they said that Hook was able to travel between realms with his ship... and that he got to go to Neverland with the bean. Doesn't that mean that it probably wasn't the bean Rumple was looking for anyway?

Or does the bean go wherever you want to? And Hook wanted it to go somewhere where he would be immortal?

I really hope they bring Peter Pan into this... at least eventually.

[koloagirl.livejournal.com]

I'll echo this. The nuances and complexities are more authentic, they illustrate the journey a 'villain' takes to reach his / her breaking point, and offer a means for characters to take new paths. Rumplestiltskin, ex., would not be as enjoyable to watch were it not for gradually learning more about how he reached this point or the rhyme behind his reasoning. It's what makes it possible to understand the moments when he deviates from the expected, as with Belle.

[vikingwriter.livejournal.com]

So long as it doesn't end up like Lost with five years of building up and introducing and 30 seconds of resolution. I just want to know that on some wall of the Writer's Room, there is a chart with all our first-season characters and their stories and that eventually they will get told. Then they can introduce all the new people they want. Because, really, I can't handle another polar bear on a tropical island. I just can't.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

But that would be taking him away from his father. Why is him being with his mother any better than being with his father?

Not that I think that abandoning children is okay, but I don't think taking him away from his father is the right decision either.

[tony-roxy.livejournal.com]

I asked the same question about the bean. My husband says it's like you were saying. The bean goes wherever the person who has it wants. Barlfire desired a place free of magic, so he was taken to (we presume) our world. Hook desired a place where he would not age (or like you said, be immortal) so he was taken to neverland. Still, I wonder how he knew of the place/ had been there before if magic beans were supposedly so rare.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

Funny, I was just giving a talk last night where I said that if nothing is truly evil or forbidden anymore, then things start to get flat and boring. :-) Not that the show is flat and boring. But as you say, I think sometimes people start to get a little tired of "He's not evil, he's just misunderstood!"

[tony-roxy.livejournal.com]

Did anyone catch the preview for next week's episode? Or are we not allowed to talk about that yet? I'm not sure how the rules work for this community.

[hughville.livejournal.com]

Tonight's episode was really good. I like that they introduce these characters who are neither all good or all bad but a mix. All the characters are flawed and very human. It's one reason I love the show so much.

Rumple's wife....I've never understood women who walk away from their children so I didn't feel much sympathy for her.

The addition of Hook should be interesting since he is in league with Cora. It will be nice to see Rumple going up against someone besides Regina.

Having Belle run the library makes sense. It will be interesting to see how things go with Rumple and her since Rumple really hasn't changed. Again, another of those traits that make the characters so real. He wants Belle and to be the person she believes he can be but he can't get go of the magic that makes him so powerful.

I missed Emma. :(

Mod response

[hughville.livejournal.com]

You can talk about it tomorrow night. We have a 24 hour wait period after the show airs to talk about spoilers.

[maidenjedi]

I think Cora is evil. Pure evil. But...who knows where they'll go with that.

[maidenjedi]

MR. SMEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was seriously my favorite part.

But aside from that - I enjoyed it quite a bit. No, not fond of Mila, but I was still relieved that Hook and his crew weren't abusing her.

Interesting to me that Baelfire was so totally abandoned by his parents. And undoubtedly, he retained his memory of that - I would venture to guess he may even know that Mila didn't die at Hook's hand. If not, well, then he thinks his mother died at the hands of a pirate and he already knew what his father became.

I would love to know the Peter Pan side of Hook's story in this world. :-)

Also - Moe French, asshole.

Finally - Ruby/Red, still badass.

[pwalkeri.livejournal.com]

I think out of everyone, Bael got the worst deal. Both his parents abandoned him for selfish reasons.

I'm wondering if Bael ends up being Peter Pan. I mean, was there any confirmation that Bael was sent into OUR world, or just ANOTHER world?

[lorelaisquared.livejournal.com]

I don't know. Since we already know she's the Miller's Daughter, presumably she's the one from Rumpel's traditional tale, in which case, we've only seen the beginnings of her story.

[lorelaisquared.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this episode, especially Belle's journey and how she evolved from blindly believing Gold had changed to standing up for herself against Gold and her idiot Father and claiming her independence. Also, I talked about it a bit more in my personal episode commentary (http://lorelaisquared.livejournal.com/131001.html) but I found it interesting that Gold specifically stated that he was trying to break this "new curse". I'm wondering how significant this is. Like is there another curse at play? Did Regina do it? Did someone else? Is that why they're still in Storybrooke?

[lorelaisquared.livejournal.com]

I missed Emma too. I'm loving all the new characters this year but I feel like it's starting to get a bit stretched and it's harder for them to balance the storytelling. I thought they did well with that last week, but I don't like having one entire timeline not even touched on.

[rpowell.livejournal.com]

I can't muster any like for Rumple's first wife. I have no sympathy for her choice to leave her son. Honestly, I did not care when she died and as a result, I had a hard time with Hook and his whole revenge motivation.


Was Rumplestiltskin any better? He was supposed to follow Bae into a land without magic and chickened out in the end. I'm giving Mila leeway because she admitted that leaving Bae was cowardly and a mistake, just as I'm giving Rumple leeway because he also regretted his action. But he failed to tell Belle the detailed circumstances behind his abandonment of Bae.



Funny, I was just giving a talk last night where I said that if nothing is truly evil or forbidden anymore . . .


Nothing is ever truly evil or forbidden. Stories like that bore me senseless. I find them one-dimensional.

[paulownia.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's good to have complex human villains, but my fear is this show is going to make everyone equally complex and sympathetic. The danger is that this becomes a predictable trend. I want Cora to remain kind of twisted just as Barbara Hershey has stated she is playing her. If she gets reformed, I would find it unrealistic. This world is full of plenty of psychopaths. I'd like OUAT to have at least one :)

[paulownia.livejournal.com]

I'll accept psychopath with little chance for changing. Good, without a contrast of evil, can get boring really fast.

[paulownia.livejournal.com]

This plot point would work for me. Hook hates Peter Pan because he's Rumples son? On the other hand, fearing that Ariel will show up in Neverland, fall in love with Hook, and attempt to redeem him too. That would make me crazy Dx

[paulownia.livejournal.com]

agree. I think you articulated my concern much better than I had.

[carlier36.livejournal.com]

I loved this episode - it's by far my favorite episode so far this season! I've felt like this season had been a bit weak up until now with trying to balance all the different storylines and although it was a shame to not see three of the main characters this week, I confess I prefer focusing on one or two main stories to jumping all over the place like last week.

Just like 'Skin Deep,' this one was a wonderful insight into Rumple's past and just how far he'll go when he's pushed. I think in terms of the evil vs. misunderstood argument, this episode actually made Rumple a bit less sympathetic. Although, no, I don't have much sympathy for Mila, the fact that he murdered his own wife shows us that although he can be charming and does know how to love, he can also be brutal and ruthless.

Also, Hook is a fabulous addition to the story and it's great to have someone not only in league with Cora but with a personal vendetta against Rumple rather than just someone wanting revenge for the fallout from his many deals.

Re: Mod response

[tony-roxy.livejournal.com]

Ok thank you :)