Episode Discussion 2x04: The Crocodile

[jadestrick.livejournal.com]

Episode Discussion 2x04: The Crocodile

Belle's disgust over Mr. Gold's continuing thirst for power comes to a head, and she threatens to leave him if he can't change his evil ways; the dwarves pick up their axes and try to find fairy dust in the Storybrooke mine; and a reunion with an old acquaintance could prove to be Belle's undoing. Meanwhile, back in the fairytale land that was, Rumplestiltskin attempts to save his wife, Milah, from being kidnapped by a band of cutthroat pirates.

P.S. Phew! Barely made it. Sorry for the delay. Wal-Mart had no less than 15 people in all 5/600 of its lines.

P.P.S. You all know it's really paining me to not use the picture I want up here. *meeps!!!*

Comments

[koloagirl.livejournal.com]

I'll echo this. The nuances and complexities are more authentic, they illustrate the journey a 'villain' takes to reach his / her breaking point, and offer a means for characters to take new paths. Rumplestiltskin, ex., would not be as enjoyable to watch were it not for gradually learning more about how he reached this point or the rhyme behind his reasoning. It's what makes it possible to understand the moments when he deviates from the expected, as with Belle.

[paulownia.livejournal.com]

I agree that it's good to have complex human villains, but my fear is this show is going to make everyone equally complex and sympathetic. The danger is that this becomes a predictable trend. I want Cora to remain kind of twisted just as Barbara Hershey has stated she is playing her. If she gets reformed, I would find it unrealistic. This world is full of plenty of psychopaths. I'd like OUAT to have at least one :)

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

*echo echo echo* ;) Yeah, there do need to be some unapologetic villains on the show. I want Cora to stay evil and Regina too.

I've never seen Rumple as a villain though, not even from the first episode, where we first glimpsed him inside a cage. His ambiguity (and as we've come to find out, depth) is what I love so much about him. He's really not good or evil; he's (as Michael Emerson referred to Ben Linus) "damaged and dangerous," yet highly entertaining, and last season, it seemed almost everybody's gone to him for help and gotten it.

Even from the beginning, he was willing to help Snow and Charming save their baby, and Snow was right to see through his crazy act and trust him. I've always seen him as a character who sees through people into their motives, and if he believes in them (like he did with Charming and Snow), he'll end up doing good for them. When he threatened to take Cinderella's child, I think he was testing her to see how far she'd go just to attend a ball, and her mistake was not even reading the contract.

He may be the "Dark One," but he's made the best of his curse, and all for the sake of his son. And he'd do anything for Belle. What makes him not a villain is that he's thoroughly capable of True Love. He just got unlucky by being duped into the Dark One curse thinking it would protect his son. (So the question in the back of my head is, who is he going to pass it on to and how? And will he have to die to do it? That's my biggest fear. The cascade of tears in the series finale! Which absolutely MUST be written by Jane Espenson, who understands him so well.)

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

I have a feeling he'll pass the Dark One curse to Belle...because that's the terms of his curse: whomever defeats him, gets the Dark One.

[dragonstarlin.livejournal.com]

I'm down with an evil that stays evil, too far to come back or if see was a moment could go different early on choose selfishness. Or evil in more supernatural sense. I think The power that makes Rumple should stay evil, but if Mr Gold could be separated from it he has host has a chance, does that make sense?.
For me its Regina who has never been fully evil, I think a possible redemption was clearly planned/alluded to from the beginning. Cora as the unredeemable (and you always have the ogres) could be ok, I think they've already hinted at some back story but this time it could show how she may have become more powerful, but always misguided. I do like the evil is made theme but agree could get repetitive and not everyone can or should come back, not all happy endings.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>and Snow was right to see through his crazy act and trust him.
?
How much was trust, how much was calculation, and how much was "we have no other options" ?

just wondering. it's been bugging me a while now; you just put it into words, thank you.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>This world is full of plenty of psychopaths
but not so many in the stories we pass from generation to generation.

[koloagirl.livejournal.com]

I think you've landed on the one we've been given so far. Cora doesn't show any signs anything but twisted, single-minded selfishness. She's driven and resolved to one purpose, and I'm not convinced we know what that is yet.

Suspecting we will see Cora's eventually, everyone has an "origin" story. The recent ep was Hook's. Even if Hook (ex.) is motivated by avenging true love, it doesn't necessarily make his goal, methods, or motivation sympathetic. He clearly was not sympathetic to Rumpelstiltskin's plight from the start.

Together, he and Cora will serve as foils for Rumpel and Regina, which will give the audience more reason to cheer for characters who, despite being villains, already are fan favorites.

[veracity]

I would say Hook was never meant to be anything more than a villain. He has sympathetic traits, yes, but he's not going to be redeemable. No matter what, he had that code mentioned to Rumples. He was ruthless and cold during the exchange. He willingly bedded and loved another man's wife, judging by the exchange.

And Rumples clearly taught Regina or Cora the trick with taking a heart from one's chest. Which is why The Dark One Rumples is clearly not meant to be the one to root for. It's the Rumples the man, the one who seems to glean from beyond the madness and power's torment. Hook doesn't seem to have that. He's kind of like Season 3 Faith, "want, take, have." No compunction some such actions. While he's angry with his crocodile nemesis over death of love, I don't think Hook was that put out so much about the loss so much as being bested. Arrogance absolutely oozed off the man. Making him a good counter to Dark Rumples's own arrogance.