Questions for The Return
Apr. 25th, 2012 04:39 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
chloris.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
abc_onceuponNow that we are having new episodes again, it's time for me to post my questions and discussion points! There is a fair amount to discuss in this episode.
1. Okay, now we know how Rumpelstiltskin lost his son and what he has against the fairies. I've seen a lot of speculation about how old Baelfire might be right now and I think we need to start with an easier question. Heh. Since it seems clear that Bae moved through both time and space, he is going to be whatever age the writers want him to be. Other questions about Bae would be: Is he working with August? Is he still a good person since he was abandoned by his father? And, is he Henry's father? (I don't think being Henry's father and a good person are mutually exclusive even with Emma's hints about him. He could have been working through his abandonment issues at the time.)
2. What will happen when the curse is broken? I don't think we can assume that everyone will go back *poof* to fairytale land. For one thing, Gold quite definitely wants it broken and going back to FTL is not what he wants to happen since that would defeat the whole purpose of the curse. Perhaps instead people get their memories back and can leave town? He has had his memory back since at least when Emma came to town but it is likely that he can't physically leave anymore than anyone else can. Not until the curse is broken.
3. Since August isn't Baelfire, Pinocchio seems likely. Do you think he is? Or are you holding out for a third option? Personally, I'm hoping for a fakeout since the show seems to be pushing the Pinocchio angle pretty hard.
4. However, what is wrong with him? Turning back to wood is a possibility. Or if he's the Tin Man, he could be rusting. *g* And why would it be happening now and not in the previous 28 years? Even if it was happening slowly before, it has sped up.
5. Mr. Gold in the woods with the apron and the dagger. The mystery has been cleared up. However, if this land has no magic, why bury it? Will breaks in the curse let some magic in through a conduit to FTL thereby making the dagger potentially dangerous? Or does Emma bring magic to Storybrooke as Jefferson stated and maybe she could use it against him? Also, if he is truly 'yay, I shall give up my magic' why hasn't he destroyed the dagger himself?
6. While it was wonderful seeing Rumpel open up and beg forgiveness and clearly be willing to give up his power, I wonder if he will be so open when he finally does find Bae. Getting burned could have the effect of making him even more paranoid and cautious so that he is unwilling to let go in the future. Of course, knowing the writers, I don't think they are going to make it this easy even if he is still willing.
7. I wasn't sure in Desperate Souls but this episode shows us that the Dark One was a step above a low level thug. Yeah he had magic and could conjure things or turn people into snails but it's all small time stuff. What did Rumple do to amass SO MUCH power as of the years before the curse?
8. Intent is everything vs. Intent in meaningless. A nice contrast in philosophies but I guess Regina means intent is everything when she is talking and not so much when other people are? I seem to remember a certain young girl having only good intent in the previous episode.
9. Also, I know she thought they were basically on the same side and that he wanted the curse for similar reasons to her own, but Regina of all people should know to read the fine print! She is well aware that he loves to trifle with technicalities. The question is, now that he has tipped his hand a bit, will she be able to figure it out?
10. So. Kathryn was tied up in a basement (for a week I think?) and then drugged and released. Since Regina had no idea she was alive how did Gold make sure that nothing connected him to the basement? He must have done it all himself since he wouldn't want to trust anyone else with this. Also, he must have been the one to alter the DNA results. How did he manage that with no trail leading to him?
11. All that is needed to break the curse is for Emma to BELIEVE. That's it. Neither August not Gold said she had to do anything else - just believe. That is very elegant. Any task could be thwarted but belief is internal and hard for anyone to stop if only Emma would begin. I wonder if Rumpel couldn't fathom someone who would be so cynical and hard to convince. Fairytale land seems to be a place of easy belief, instant love, and sincerity. Not like here.
12. And, to bring this to the end of my questions and the end of the episode, Emma is going to take Henry away? Really? She is the Evil Queen so I don't see Henry as particularly safe with her (just ask the first Henry in her life) but I'm not sure why Emma even thinks this is possible. If we are talking reality, there is really no legal way to end the adoption and say 'hey I take it back.' She has no parental rights to him! If we are talking FTL, good luck taking him from the Evil Queen. That will end well. What I don't get is why she would warn Regina either way. Work on your case first, then set the law against her. And here I thought she was getting craftier with her diagonal comment to Gold.
1. Okay, now we know how Rumpelstiltskin lost his son and what he has against the fairies. I've seen a lot of speculation about how old Baelfire might be right now and I think we need to start with an easier question. Heh. Since it seems clear that Bae moved through both time and space, he is going to be whatever age the writers want him to be. Other questions about Bae would be: Is he working with August? Is he still a good person since he was abandoned by his father? And, is he Henry's father? (I don't think being Henry's father and a good person are mutually exclusive even with Emma's hints about him. He could have been working through his abandonment issues at the time.)
2. What will happen when the curse is broken? I don't think we can assume that everyone will go back *poof* to fairytale land. For one thing, Gold quite definitely wants it broken and going back to FTL is not what he wants to happen since that would defeat the whole purpose of the curse. Perhaps instead people get their memories back and can leave town? He has had his memory back since at least when Emma came to town but it is likely that he can't physically leave anymore than anyone else can. Not until the curse is broken.
3. Since August isn't Baelfire, Pinocchio seems likely. Do you think he is? Or are you holding out for a third option? Personally, I'm hoping for a fakeout since the show seems to be pushing the Pinocchio angle pretty hard.
4. However, what is wrong with him? Turning back to wood is a possibility. Or if he's the Tin Man, he could be rusting. *g* And why would it be happening now and not in the previous 28 years? Even if it was happening slowly before, it has sped up.
5. Mr. Gold in the woods with the apron and the dagger. The mystery has been cleared up. However, if this land has no magic, why bury it? Will breaks in the curse let some magic in through a conduit to FTL thereby making the dagger potentially dangerous? Or does Emma bring magic to Storybrooke as Jefferson stated and maybe she could use it against him? Also, if he is truly 'yay, I shall give up my magic' why hasn't he destroyed the dagger himself?
6. While it was wonderful seeing Rumpel open up and beg forgiveness and clearly be willing to give up his power, I wonder if he will be so open when he finally does find Bae. Getting burned could have the effect of making him even more paranoid and cautious so that he is unwilling to let go in the future. Of course, knowing the writers, I don't think they are going to make it this easy even if he is still willing.
7. I wasn't sure in Desperate Souls but this episode shows us that the Dark One was a step above a low level thug. Yeah he had magic and could conjure things or turn people into snails but it's all small time stuff. What did Rumple do to amass SO MUCH power as of the years before the curse?
8. Intent is everything vs. Intent in meaningless. A nice contrast in philosophies but I guess Regina means intent is everything when she is talking and not so much when other people are? I seem to remember a certain young girl having only good intent in the previous episode.
9. Also, I know she thought they were basically on the same side and that he wanted the curse for similar reasons to her own, but Regina of all people should know to read the fine print! She is well aware that he loves to trifle with technicalities. The question is, now that he has tipped his hand a bit, will she be able to figure it out?
10. So. Kathryn was tied up in a basement (for a week I think?) and then drugged and released. Since Regina had no idea she was alive how did Gold make sure that nothing connected him to the basement? He must have done it all himself since he wouldn't want to trust anyone else with this. Also, he must have been the one to alter the DNA results. How did he manage that with no trail leading to him?
11. All that is needed to break the curse is for Emma to BELIEVE. That's it. Neither August not Gold said she had to do anything else - just believe. That is very elegant. Any task could be thwarted but belief is internal and hard for anyone to stop if only Emma would begin. I wonder if Rumpel couldn't fathom someone who would be so cynical and hard to convince. Fairytale land seems to be a place of easy belief, instant love, and sincerity. Not like here.
12. And, to bring this to the end of my questions and the end of the episode, Emma is going to take Henry away? Really? She is the Evil Queen so I don't see Henry as particularly safe with her (just ask the first Henry in her life) but I'm not sure why Emma even thinks this is possible. If we are talking reality, there is really no legal way to end the adoption and say 'hey I take it back.' She has no parental rights to him! If we are talking FTL, good luck taking him from the Evil Queen. That will end well. What I don't get is why she would warn Regina either way. Work on your case first, then set the law against her. And here I thought she was getting craftier with her diagonal comment to Gold.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2012-04-25 10:12 pm (UTC)During 'That Still Small Voice' when Archie finally stands up to Regina, he says at that time that he has a feeling she'll be fighting a custody battle eventually, and since he's the therapist who has treated Henry, his expert opinion will likely be called in on the matter. He says it as a threat. Now, I'm not entirely sure how child custody laws work, but I know damn well that if a parent is proven to be unfit, the child can be removed. Regina is a sociopath and a narcissist. If Emma, with the help of friends like Archie, can PROVE that Henry would be better off anywhere but with Regina because she's pretty much a crime boss, then it seems more likely that Emma could be awarded custody. I think that birth mothers still retain some rights, though how many rights depends on the state. Not to mention, he could simply be placed in a foster home on a long-term basis. Like, say, Mary Margaret's! Plus, Emma is starting to figure out that things don't always work the "right" way in Storybrooke.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-26 12:34 am (UTC)However, who is Emma supposed to prove Regina's unfitness to? She is not going to get anywhere with any legal bodies in town and they can't leave. Also, I don't see Regina keeping any evidence unmuddied so that it would be clear even to an independent judge that Regina was unfit. AND, declaring Regina unfit has nothing to do with Emma getting custody. At this point she has no more claim on Henry than anyone else. (As far as I know from reading posts on the subject by adoptive mothers.) So the best outcome would be a foster home and I'm not sure why Emma would want that.
I get the feeling we aren't supposed to be thinking about this too closely though or considering the legalities! All that will matter on the show are the character issues - Emma getting tough, Regina being afraid, and so on.
no subject
Date: 2012-04-26 12:30 pm (UTC)Even without that though, Regina controls too much of what goes on in that town. And what she doesn't, Gold does.