Questions for The Return

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Now that we are having new episodes again, it's time for me to post my questions and discussion points! There is a fair amount to discuss in this episode.

1. Okay, now we know how Rumpelstiltskin lost his son and what he has against the fairies. I've seen a lot of speculation about how old Baelfire might be right now and I think we need to start with an easier question. Heh. Since it seems clear that Bae moved through both time and space, he is going to be whatever age the writers want him to be. Other questions about Bae would be: Is he working with August? Is he still a good person since he was abandoned by his father? And, is he Henry's father? (I don't think being Henry's father and a good person are mutually exclusive even with Emma's hints about him. He could have been working through his abandonment issues at the time.)

2. What will happen when the curse is broken? I don't think we can assume that everyone will go back *poof* to fairytale land. For one thing, Gold quite definitely wants it broken and going back to FTL is not what he wants to happen since that would defeat the whole purpose of the curse. Perhaps instead people get their memories back and can leave town? He has had his memory back since at least when Emma came to town but it is likely that he can't physically leave anymore than anyone else can. Not until the curse is broken.

3. Since August isn't Baelfire, Pinocchio seems likely. Do you think he is? Or are you holding out for a third option? Personally, I'm hoping for a fakeout since the show seems to be pushing the Pinocchio angle pretty hard.

4. However, what is wrong with him? Turning back to wood is a possibility. Or if he's the Tin Man, he could be rusting. *g* And why would it be happening now and not in the previous 28 years? Even if it was happening slowly before, it has sped up.

5. Mr. Gold in the woods with the apron and the dagger. The mystery has been cleared up. However, if this land has no magic, why bury it? Will breaks in the curse let some magic in through a conduit to FTL thereby making the dagger potentially dangerous? Or does Emma bring magic to Storybrooke as Jefferson stated and maybe she could use it against him? Also, if he is truly 'yay, I shall give up my magic' why hasn't he destroyed the dagger himself?

6. While it was wonderful seeing Rumpel open up and beg forgiveness and clearly be willing to give up his power, I wonder if he will be so open when he finally does find Bae. Getting burned could have the effect of making him even more paranoid and cautious so that he is unwilling to let go in the future. Of course, knowing the writers, I don't think they are going to make it this easy even if he is still willing.

7. I wasn't sure in Desperate Souls but this episode shows us that the Dark One was a step above a low level thug. Yeah he had magic and could conjure things or turn people into snails but it's all small time stuff. What did Rumple do to amass SO MUCH power as of the years before the curse?

8. Intent is everything vs. Intent in meaningless. A nice contrast in philosophies but I guess Regina means intent is everything when she is talking and not so much when other people are? I seem to remember a certain young girl having only good intent in the previous episode.

9. Also, I know she thought they were basically on the same side and that he wanted the curse for similar reasons to her own, but Regina of all people should know to read the fine print! She is well aware that he loves to trifle with technicalities. The question is, now that he has tipped his hand a bit, will she be able to figure it out?

10. So. Kathryn was tied up in a basement (for a week I think?) and then drugged and released. Since Regina had no idea she was alive how did Gold make sure that nothing connected him to the basement? He must have done it all himself since he wouldn't want to trust anyone else with this. Also, he must have been the one to alter the DNA results. How did he manage that with no trail leading to him?

11. All that is needed to break the curse is for Emma to BELIEVE. That's it. Neither August not Gold said she had to do anything else - just believe. That is very elegant. Any task could be thwarted but belief is internal and hard for anyone to stop if only Emma would begin. I wonder if Rumpel couldn't fathom someone who would be so cynical and hard to convince. Fairytale land seems to be a place of easy belief, instant love, and sincerity. Not like here.

12. And, to bring this to the end of my questions and the end of the episode, Emma is going to take Henry away? Really? She is the Evil Queen so I don't see Henry as particularly safe with her (just ask the first Henry in her life) but I'm not sure why Emma even thinks this is possible. If we are talking reality, there is really no legal way to end the adoption and say 'hey I take it back.' She has no parental rights to him! If we are talking FTL, good luck taking him from the Evil Queen. That will end well. What I don't get is why she would warn Regina either way. Work on your case first, then set the law against her. And here I thought she was getting craftier with her diagonal comment to Gold.

Comments

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

#7 makes me think of the old phrase "the banality of evil." It's possible he had lots of power back then but wasn't interested in being more than a petty tyrant.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Perhaps. I can see early Dark One Rumpel having a failure of imagination consider he has lived a very small live so far. However, it is clear that he has spent at least a century (and probably more) trying to attain enough power and knowledge to enact the curse. So even if he had more power than it seemed at first I do think he has a great deal more power by the end.

[sensitivinferno.livejournal.com]

All very good questions, but the last one is the only one I really have a working opinion on.

During 'That Still Small Voice' when Archie finally stands up to Regina, he says at that time that he has a feeling she'll be fighting a custody battle eventually, and since he's the therapist who has treated Henry, his expert opinion will likely be called in on the matter. He says it as a threat. Now, I'm not entirely sure how child custody laws work, but I know damn well that if a parent is proven to be unfit, the child can be removed. Regina is a sociopath and a narcissist. If Emma, with the help of friends like Archie, can PROVE that Henry would be better off anywhere but with Regina because she's pretty much a crime boss, then it seems more likely that Emma could be awarded custody. I think that birth mothers still retain some rights, though how many rights depends on the state. Not to mention, he could simply be placed in a foster home on a long-term basis. Like, say, Mary Margaret's! Plus, Emma is starting to figure out that things don't always work the "right" way in Storybrooke.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Yes, I remember that scene. They have built up the custody battle for a while here and that is nice continuity.

However, who is Emma supposed to prove Regina's unfitness to? She is not going to get anywhere with any legal bodies in town and they can't leave. Also, I don't see Regina keeping any evidence unmuddied so that it would be clear even to an independent judge that Regina was unfit. AND, declaring Regina unfit has nothing to do with Emma getting custody. At this point she has no more claim on Henry than anyone else. (As far as I know from reading posts on the subject by adoptive mothers.) So the best outcome would be a foster home and I'm not sure why Emma would want that.

I get the feeling we aren't supposed to be thinking about this too closely though or considering the legalities! All that will matter on the show are the character issues - Emma getting tough, Regina being afraid, and so on.

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

I like the bit about Emma not getting anywhere with the legal bodies in town. Before Mary Margaret got cleared, I was imagining her at trial with the jury made up of villains. :D

Even without that though, Regina controls too much of what goes on in that town. And what she doesn't, Gold does.

[djarum99.livejournal.com]

7. Robert Carlyle has done an incredible job of showing us Rumpelstiltkin's evolution through the FT timeline. I think he grew into his power and grew into himself, acquiring more magic through fair means and foul and leaving behind the frightened peasant he was as Bae's father. I also believe that losing his son had a profound effect on him, and rather than causing him to lose his humanity it fanned the flame. He wouldn't have been able to find true love with Belle if he'd remained the same man.
10. I think that Mr. Gold had Kathryn, but I believe the rest might have been Regina's doing. She was able to tie the DNA fakery and the break-in to obtain Mary Margaret's jewelry box to Sydney when she cooked up the plan to frame him and save herself. I don't remember Gold making a deal for more than "something tragic" happening to Kathryn (?)
11. Yes!! It is very elegant. Gold may be counting on Henry to help her along - it would be very difficult indeed for someone in this world to believe that story, and that may be one of the reasons Gold brought Henry to Regina. August's assistance would be a bonus he didn't count on, and it makes sense that he wouldn't kill him because of it.
12. Emma is impulsive, and there are spoilers about a major character death "that won't stick." I think the finale will be everything the writer's have promised - loved RC's tweet to EDR about not thinking "that was legal" in reference to that episode. I have a feeling the fandom will be reeling, and I can't wait :-)

Thanks so much for the thinky thoughts and discussion ♥

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

"loved RC's tweet to EDR about not thinking "that was legal" in reference to that episode."

Sorry, what? Details please!

[djarum99.livejournal.com]

The transcript is here :-) (http://robert-carlyle.com/twitter-transcript-march-20-2012/)

Can'twaitcan'twaitcan'twait! ♥

[chloris.livejournal.com]

7. I think dedicating his life to finding his son has definitely kept his humanity alive on some level. But wielding power and playing with people's lives has changed him in other ways. If we think of Mr. Gold as the man he is without the curse (likely since Storybrooke at least has very limited magic) then he is a very different man now than he was then. A good point though about Belle. Perhaps the man he was could not have loved her - and the fact he could find true love at all says something important about his capacity for change and for humanity.

10. The question I have is that Regina thought Kathryn was dead so why would she think to fake the DNA? I guess she supplied one of her own hearts instead of getting Kathryn's from Gold? But, if she thought Kathryn was dead and if Gold gave her Kathryn's 'heart', then Gold would need to both hold Kathryn in the basement and fake the DNA.

No, the deal was only for something tragic and Gold spun a nice tale about people leaving town and Mary Margaret taking the key. Regina did get everything they agreed to but I do wonder how Gold orchestrated all the pieces without magic or an evidence trail.

11. Gold must be getting VERY anxious about the curse breaking and when Emma is going to get on it. He has no reason to trust August and plenty of reasons to kill him but instead he sends him off to try again.

12. Emma is definitely impulsive - something we've seen with her since the beginning of the season. But when she tells Regina what she is going to do I can't help wanting to tell her NOT to give away her plans to the Evil Queen!

You're welcome. *g* Thanks for responding.

[djarum99.livejournal.com]

But wielding power and playing with people's lives has changed him in other ways. If we think of Mr. Gold as the man he is without the curse (likely since Storybrooke at least has very limited magic) then he is a very different man now than he was then.

Definitely. RC's comments on R/Mr.G (I do love that man) are very insightful; he sees him as neither good nor evil but as someone trying to balance both (a kind of sorcerer's Everyman), and he's said a few times that he believes Rumpel is centuries old. Rumpelstiltskin the peasant bears little resemblance to Gold's sleek sophistication or to the Rumpelstiltskin we see much further along in the timeline, manipulating the other characters like pawns on a chess board.

10. I read the whole DNA and jewelry box hoax as written in Regina's heavy hand. Subtlety isn't her strong point, and she would want the case against Snow to be open and shut. The heart, especially, seemed like something she would come up with. On the other hand, Gold would take great delight in paving the way for Regina's derailing in a style that would make her the most complacent - "all the better to smack you down hard, dearie" :-) I hope we eventually get some clarification.

when she tells Regina what she is going to do I can't help wanting to tell her NOT to give away her plans to the Evil Queen!

No, do not reveal your endgame to the psychopathic sorceress! Bad Idea.

[enigmasphinx66.livejournal.com]

These are all great questions and I love the way you think. :)

I really don't think that the argument that this reality is "without magic" holds any water. We've seen Regina crush a heart to dust and thereby kill Graham. Magic obviously has a place in conjunction to Storybrooke. As amused as I am that August tried to wrest control of the dagger, I don't think that anything works like it would in FTL. If Jefferson fell into the hat, it wasn't exactly like the way the hat worked before although the outcome might have been the same. I suspect Rumplestiltskin has some concerns about the dagger, hence the burial, but perhaps he can't foresee how it might be used and is simply preparing for the worst. If no one can find the dagger, no one can use it. Not Emma and not Regina, which makes one suspect that he knows Regina killed Graham.

What if Storybrooke is simply a magical cul-de-sac in the reality of FTL? The illusion that magic doesn't work, the only way to break the illusion is to have Emma believe and break the spell...

[djarum99.livejournal.com]

What if Storybrooke is simply a magical cul-de-sac in the reality of FTL? The illusion that magic doesn't work, the only way to break the illusion is to have Emma believe and break the spell...

Oooh, that's brilliant! It's always seemed odd that everyone in Storybrooke talks about Boston as if it's the only city in existence, the only possible destination beyond that "leaving Storybrooke" sign.

I suspect Rumplestiltskin has some concerns about the dagger

Preparing for the worst, yes - Rumpelstiltskin might be concerned about someone using the dagger after the curse is broken. And, Hat Trick was particularly intriguing because it seemed to suggest (with Jefferson's fall out the window and disappearance) that portals to lands with magic might exist in Storybrooke.

All of this speculation explains why fandom and fanfic are so intensely fascinating before the big reveal. So many possibilities, so many different doors :-)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

Well it's clear that the curse itself is magic so there is obviously SOME magic even if magic daggers have no power anymore. It's not as though in this world we are generally literally frozen in time, have our memories overwritten, or have horrible things happen to us if we try to leave town. However, magic appears to be extremely limited beyond the actions of the curse and I'd say that it is likely that no magic works at all beyond Storybrooke.

We did see Regina crush that heart but her vault may be specially connected to FTL. It doesn't seem as though she can take any new hearts or do any of her other tricks. Like the curse itself, the limits of magic in the town have been left quite vague, haven't they?

Oh, I'm sure he does know that Regina killed Graham. I doubt her heart vault is a secret from him and he knows that Graham was starting to remember before he dropped dead from a surprise heart attack.

What if Storybrooke is simply a magical cul-de-sac in the reality of FTL?

Huh! Would it be a cul-de-sac that bubbles out into our world so that it's of both? That would be an interesting way to bring magic into Storybrooke.

[pandorasimp.livejournal.com]

2. I actually disagree, I think once the curse is completely broken then everything does go poof and they are back in FTL. However, he never said Emma would break the curse, he said when she came back the final battle would begin. So I think there needs to be a final battle before the poof.: )

Also I'm pretty sure he's had his memories since the beginning. He had to have them to procure Henry for Regina.

3 & 4. Pinocchio was my first guess back when I saw 7:15am and I'm sticking to it. I could be wrong and am thankful I only have to wait a few more days to find out. I think he's changing back and I think the timing has to do with Time starting again in Storybrooke.


5. I don't think he can destroy the sword. I think that's part of the rules. If that was possible Zoso would have done it since he wanted out as well.

7. I think he has used his deals over the years to gain more magic and more power


11. I don't know if that's all that is needed to break the curse, but maybe that's all Emma needs to do. I think her believe would bring magic to Storybrooke.

12. I think it's very possible to have Henry removed from Regina's custody. Henry ran away hunted Emma down because he was convinced his mother is evil. If they can prove she is an unfit parent then she loses him. However that doesn't mean the courts would hand him over to Emma, but it's likely. At Henry's age the court would considered his wants as well.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

2. I think most people do think that the characters will poof back to FTL so you are in the majority here. But I'm trying to reconcile Gold's desire for Emma to break the curse with the fact that ending up back in FTL is the LAST thing he wants. It would be so useless! However, I can get behind the idea that Emma would bring change first by coming to town and then by believing without any of that actually breaking the curse and that change could allow him to...leave? search for Bae? bring Bae to him? However he is planning on finding Bae.

As for the memories, I go back and forth on when he got them back. I do find it clear that he had them as of the pilot but writer interviews have me leaning towards him getting them then as opposed to having them right along. Henry is the sticking point though since I can't figure out how he would bring Henry in without knowing who he is. Perhaps he built certain things into the curse so that he would be prepared when Emma came? But that seems overly complicated.

5. I have to agree with this now that I'm thinking about it more. Even here he probably can't just melt it down. He says there is no magic here but the curse wouldn't work if there was none. (In FTL he certainly could not have destroyed it so Zoso had no chance but the rules in our world are different.)

12. I think it's possible but it is far from easy. He may think she is the Evil Queen (and of course she is) but she feeds, clothes, gives gifts, provides rules which seem strict but fair, and to all appearances seems a good if not overly warm mother. Declaring her unfit would be a very difficult thing to prove even if she didn't control the town. And, since she does, I have trouble believing and Storybrooke court would not find in Regina's favor. However, I can understand Emma's desire to get him out of there!

[pandorasimp.livejournal.com]

2. I'm trying to reconcile that too, but the main part of the curse was transporting everything to Storybrooke so when it's broken I think everything has to go back to FTL, otherwise it's not really broken. I keep going back to Rumpelstiltskin telling Regina that when the child returns the Final Battle begins. Perhaps he doesn't want to break the curse yet, but guide Emma to a point in that battle? But I agree it doesn't make sense that he wants everything to revert back.

As for the memories, he could have had a triggers but, for me, it makes more sense he just knew all along. However you never know. :)

12. I agree, it would be far from easy. Any court inside Storybrooke would be manipulated by Regina so I don't think she'd stand a chance. Perhaps if Mr.Gold was helping her and she would need Archie on her side too. I was thinking more from a legal standpoint. Possible but very difficult.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

2. Unless the curse had the side effect of destroying FTL and so breaking the curse strands them in Maine without a clear way back. In that case they could break the curse and still have a great deal of work to do to be able to get back or to have anything to get back to.

There is a lot of how the curse works that is still opaque or at best fuzzy and I hope the writers know more than they've told us so far. I mean we'll probably never get a good explanation on how the stopped time thing worked but at least it would be nice to have the curse breaking thought through.

[aojiroiemura.livejournal.com]

1. I really, really want to believe that Bae is Henry’s Dad just because it would make it so much better. Plus if there’s anyone I’m gonna ship Emma with other then Graham it would be Bae just because I love his name and his overall FTL character. <3 As for his age, I’m sure the writers could come up with something. August wise, I kind of feel like he might have been working with him. Mostly because of the stuff he knew about Rumpel like the dagger and how he knew Bae called him papa (not everyone calls their dad that).

2. I personally love the FTL a lot more then Storybrooke so I’m actually hoping they could go back to that world, if they wanted to.

3. Ever since he talked about not being a liar, I’ve believed he was Pinocchio and I’m going to continue to believe it until this Sunday’s episode airs and they either prove me right or wrong.

4. As what’s wrong with him. I think he’s turning back into a wood, since he was brought to life by magic, in a world without any it just makes sense. As for why it’s only acting up now. I think that maybe once Emma go to Storybrooke, and time started moving there that’s when his trouble started. I mean so far it just seems to be his leg which makes me think he hasn’t had it for too long.
5. I agree with what you said. Though I don’t think he can just dispose it when it wants to. There’s probably some kind of ‘catch’ if you know what I’m saying.
6. I was actually surprised by how easily he was fooled. I mean he always seems to skeptical of everyone. D;
7. N/A
8. N/A
9. N/A
10. Mr. Gold is just awesome. Really that’s all I can say about that whole situation.
11. N/A
12. As for Emma talking about Taking Henry back I don’t see it happening, at least legally in Storybrooke. Maybe in FTL they can fight to the death for him. .___.
13. I’m still curious about the favor Emma owes Gold. O_O

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. I think it would tie things together nicely for Bae to be the father! Right now Bae is out there and is both the motivation for the plot and unconnected to it in the present.

August could also be working with the Blue Fairy since she would know these things as well. So far there isn't anyone else who was alive back then and could tell August - either Bae or Blue.

2. I wonder if going back isn't going to be so easy. I believe Blue said something about Rumpel having to destroy FTL to get to our world when she was talking about the curse.

6. He did talk about emotional entanglements being dangerous! I can see even the thought of finding Bae again throwing him off his game. He has wanted it so bad and for so long.

10. I can't argue with that! :)

13. Perhaps to find Bae? She has been introduced as a character who is good at finding people. But perhaps she can't do that until the boundaries of Storybrooke have been loosened and people can come and go.

[detafo.livejournal.com]

I wrote a whole reply written to this post this morning, but my tablet, for some reason didn't post it. Very not happy at said tablet right now... lol...

Anyway, I'll try again.

The only answer I can give to this ppost is to #7.

I think, because Bae has now crossed time and space, Rumpel is angry at his own cowardice for not going with his son. He became so powerful from his own self loathing turning on him and he became darker, more unnatural, as his self loathing grows and his sadness at losing his sson manifests.

Either that, or he became obsessed with bringing the fairies to justice, for 'stealing' his son away. He already has a grudge, if not aa vendetta against Blue, so what if he was picking ooff the fairy godmothrs for their powers and using them for darkness much like Sylar from Heroes. It would account for his destroying Cinderella's Fairy Godmother and stealing her wand... or at least in my mind iit would lol

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Damn technology. *shakes fist*

Interesting answer! I like the idea that his own anger at himself intensifies his power. I do think that killing fairies is another way though. Killing those who have power and taking it for your own would be a good way to become more powerful yourself and with the added bonus of punishing those he holds responsible.

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

3. Holding out for another option. I desperately do not want August to be Pinocchio. I still consider it a cheat if anyone else was saved by the tree, and a huge contrivance for him to have been carved from the tree (and still don't know if that would save him). Plus, I like Geppetto. I want him to get to raise his only child. Besides not getting to severely curtailing his happy ending, it's a rehash of Charming and Snow and Emma. Also, I don't care for August in general. He doesn't look like Pinocchio, and he's show absolutely no interest in Marco.

7. I'd guess Rumpel made deals and traded for knowledge/power. Also, he killed fairies and took their wands, like Ella's fairy godmother. I really do wonder how many fairies he has killed.

9. I hope so. I love Regina as a bad guy. I love to see her lose to the good guys. I even loved Rumpel saying "please" in the "The Thing You Love The Most" - gorgeous. But it's getting very tiresome that he wins *every single time* he deals with her. Her only victory that I can think of is with tricking him on Belle. Since I cannot root for her to be imprisoned, I can't support the Queen on this one. Give her a victory over him that I can enjoy.

11. I need to rewatch that scene. I'd perceived it as believing being the *beginning* of breaking the curse, not the entirety of it. But several people have said otherwise, so I need to rewatch.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

3. I'm holding out too! I'll accept it if that is where they are going but I don't have to like it. Especially after the young!Snow casting, I would not be happy that he looks nothing like Pinocchio. He looks A LOT more like Baelfire other than the eyes.

9. Hmmm. I don't know. She wins SO MUCH that, even if it's only to Rumpel that she loses, it's nice to see her losing or on the defensive sometimes. I would like to see Emma win against her though! And on her own without Gold's help. I do admit also to being a Gold/Rumpel partisan so part of me doesn't want him to lose to her for that reason. However, Robert Carlyle would act the hell out of it so there is that.

11. Perhaps it is the beginning but it felt like they were talking about all that was needed was for Emma to believe and August hoped that would bring magic back.

[d-garmo71.livejournal.com]

3. Really hoping he is someone else. At this point, him being Pinocchio would hardly be a surprise.

7. Killing I suppose since it seems to work that way in FTL. Possibly fairies to get their good powers? He did bottle love. It's possibly he couldn't do that with dark magic.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

3. Frankly, this show is not always so great at making surprising character reveals. I keep remembering how they tried to keep Graham's identity a secret, when for weeks everyone online was saying, "DUH, he's the Huntsman." :-) Of course, they did a good job keeping the secret about Red's being the wolf. But in this case, I'm pretty sure we're dealing with Pinocchio.

[d-garmo71.livejournal.com]

True that. We are talking about a show that spoilt Rumple was The Beast in the frigging PROMO!! But a little part of me is still hanging on to the hope of a surprise. ;)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Heh. I wonder why they spoiled the Rumpel as the Beast storyline in the promos? Maybe since it was a Rumpel-centric story they didn't think it worth pretending? ...I'm still holding out for a twist with August though. I so want him to be someone other than Pinocchio.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

They're not even TRYING to hide it now. Go look at the current status on OUAT's Facebook page. :-)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

*facepalm* Maybe it's a misdirect?

[idle-curiosity.livejournal.com]

I don't want him to be Pinocchio either. I'd like to think that he isn't, based on the preview for Sunday's episode. If he is, they're giving it away. Yes, he's Pinocchio ... Emma tells August that she's supposed to believe he's a fairy tale character, cut to scenes of Pinocchio and Gepteto. It's that easy? Quite honestly, I don't *want* the reveal of his identity to be that easy.

Anyway, I still think August is Graham/The Huntsman, lol. I can't help it. There still isn't anything to make me believe that he isn't, and everything I've seen plays into my feeling that he is.

We'll find out tomorrow, and I'm probably wrong, because I usually am, but tomorrow night can't come fast enough.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Both Bae and Pinocchio seem easy, obvious choices. I love a good twist and I hope that is what they are doing here. Even though the Bae reveal seemed rather simple it did work for me for the emotional resonance - since it's not him I want a completely nonobvious choice. I guess we'll know in a few hours!

If he is Graham can he switch to look like Jamie Dornan? Complete with accent? Eion Bailey is attractive but doesn't quite do it for me. :)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. It was so completely clear he was the Huntsman that it seemed silly to pretend it was a secret. I think the reason it worked with Red was that she already had a fairytale story and all they did was layer another one on top so no one was wondering who she was before her episode. We already knew.

[litlover12.livejournal.com]

Good point.