7:15 am Questions

[chloris.livejournal.com]

While writing up my review about 7:15 am on my journal, I had some questions and comments about the episode that I thought would be good to post here for discussion.

1. Was that the shortest, most focused storm ever or what? Lots of build-up with the weather report and everyone talking about it and then, eh. David and Mary barely had to take shelter from it before it was over! I wonder how many storms Storybrooke had pre-Emma. Storms can change things (destroy buildings, wash out roads) and nothing could change before. I get the feeling that Storybrooke is much more of the world than it used to be and not just in strangers visiting.

2. Regina reads Fantastic Four? Or was she just hiding behind it as she did her daily 'spy on Mary Margaret' routine?

3. We have a new rule of magic! Previously: all curses can be broken no matter how powerful they are, all magic has a price, and no bringing anyone back from the dead. Now we know that magic can't make anyone love you. Once again Rumpel is very clear on what he can and cannot do. The question is, what did he want with her hair and how is that going to come back and bite her? This scene also makes it even more obvious that Ella's deal was different from all the rest we've seen.

4. So the box contains a typewriter and, not just a typewriter, a REALLY OLD typewriter. Hmmmm. Is he just pretentious or does this particular typewriter have some significance? And what is his connection to the town? Theories I've heard - Rumpel's son, a member of the Grimm family, a connection to another chronicler of fairytales (such as Hans Christian Andersen), the writer of Henry's book, someone Mr. Gold called into town, the Big Bad Wolf, the boy who found Emma? (Many of these are not mutually exclusive so it could be a combo.) Or someone else entirely? And how meta is he going to be?

He does say (What's in the box is) something I need to do what I came here for. and I find this place provides inspiration.

5. What did Snow do for Red that no one else would? Help with the Wolf perhaps? And, is it just me, or did Red look particularly lovely in the flashback scenes?

6. Another dwarf! That does explain why they had room in their house for her. It's too bad he didn't quite live up to his name. *sniff* I do hope we see more of him in older, dwarf-centric flashbacks.

7. We seriously need some more Abigail so we can understand what she wants, since we know it isn't Charming anymore than he wants her. By the way, King Uncharming is seriously pushy. It's not enough that he go through with the wedding, no his HEART needs to be in it. Which is amusing since the king is just about as down on love as Rumpel.

8. And that's another thing I'm wondering. Was Rumpel's speech about the destructiveness of love all manipulation to get Snow to make a deal, or about his (dead? lost?) wife and son, or does he have a post-Dark One romance that ends badly?

9. Oooh! One more thing! Mary and David finally give into their passion right in front of the Storybrooke Real Estate Office and that has me thinking about the curse. Since nothing could change, no one could move or change jobs, and, therefore, the real estate agent could NEVER sell a house. (As far as we know.) But they also couldn't get any richer or poorer (since that would be a change), so how did they make money? Side business like the diner/bar and the B&B? Or did their bank account magically reset itself each month? If that's the case it must have been REALLY annoying for Mr. Gold. *g* Unless he had regular outside contacts and could make money and deals that way.

I think that's enough for now. Anyone have any ideas? Questions of their own?

Comments

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

Darn, I wish I had recorded these so I could rewatch and study them in retrospect and talk intelligently about these theories. (When I was bedridden with bad back for three weeks and rewatched Lost after season 3 1/2, everything that happened before became so clear and meaningful in retrospect, even though every episode had left me confused at the time. And I gained an entirely new perspective on Ben Linus, whom I was previously convinced was a complete villain. Did you watch Lost, and, if so, what do you think: Would I be wrong in theorizing that Rumpel is akin to OUAT's Ben Linus? They are both incredibly complicated characters, worthy of essays like yours!)

#3 I agree, he almost certainly has a plan for it. (As Ben Linus once said, "How many times do I have to tell you? I always have a plan.") And also as you've said, he's 20 moves ahead of everyone in the chess match. (An even more highly evolved version of Ben!) So, while it may not be "insurance" for a rainy day, exactly, it may be part of a longer-term plan. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he went to the pier looking for her, even had Red tell her where to find him. (Hopefully this show will last long enough so we can go back and watch four years worth of episodes and witness his ingenious plan unfolding with the benefit of hindsight!)

#4 Somehow (don't ask me how!), I had the impression that he may have left the kingdom entirely and come to our world. But you're right, in that case, he most certainly would have aged and died by now. On the other hand, if he ran away from Rumpel after that incident, as I suspect he did, he could have ended up in some other kingdom, though the Queen's curse could have affected him and brought him to our world, no? Maybe? And he's only now found out where his dad's been living? (OK, maybe I'm grasping at [gold] straws here. I just want everything to be about Rumpel, lol.)

#8 *daydreams about Rumpel finding his true love, Mary Sue, breaking the curse and spinning off into Rumpel's Happily Ever After Hour* LOL. He may love it when people will do ANYTHING, but why does he love it so much? Because he gets to have more fun at their expense? Still, am I wrong in sensing that he has a tender spot for Snow White, Emma, and Henry? (Or are they just pawns to him in his quest to defeat the Queen?)

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

Auxiliary question: Do you think Rumpel genuinely likes anyone in Storybrooke, or is everything about the chess game he's playing for his own entertainment?

[chloris.livejournal.com]

I don't really know! We have so little insight into what he wants and how he feels about things when he isn't trying to manipulate someone that it could go either way. I do think he is coming to respect Emma though. His whole plan to make her sheriff was based on her sense of honor and need to do what is right rather than what would benefit her.

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

You know, I'm just rewatching the beginning of Desperate Souls (the only one I have on my DVR), and I can't help feeling that Mr. Gold genuinely likes and cares about Emma and Henry. When she goes into his shop and he offers his condolences and tries to give her a keepsake of Graham's, he just seems so real--no smirks of satisfaction, no hint of trickery up his sleeve. He's just being genuinely nice--and seems a little wistful when he talks about how little time you have with your children before they grow up and you "lose" them. (It kind of makes me tear up.) And, giving her the walkie talkies, he asked for absolutely nothing in return. It felt like such an honest and heartfelt scene. And we know Robert Carlyle is such a good actor that none of that was by accident.

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

OK, he was manipulating her a teeny bit in the beginning. He obviously called her to come into the shop so he could plant the idea of becoming sheriff in her head--and also when he told her if she didn't want his stuff, Regina might. (He can't help it; he's still Rumpel.) But I still sense a difference in the way he talks to her. (I laughed when she first went in the shop and she called out for him, "Mr. Gold? Are you here?" and he mutters, "Well, it is my shop." Just couldn't resist a little sarcasm. But can you blame him for being bitter? I seriously think he has some memory from before the curse, even if it's only in his gut.) I'm kind of shipping those two in my mind at the moment!

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

You know, the more closely I watch this show, the more it irritates me. For example, why doesn't Granny tell Little Red Riding Slut to wear something decent to work? And Gold may be manipulating people, but Regina is just the nastiest piece of work I've ever seen; I don't know how anyone can think she could be redeemed while Rumpel can't. I admit it, I really am just watching it for Robert Carlyle!

[chloris.livejournal.com]

First of all I'm not comfortable judging Ruby (or calling her names) because she wears short skirts and too much makeup and wants to have sex. Or really any other woman for the same things so I would appreciate it if you not use those terms with me.

Second of all, everyone is written into roles in Storybrooke. No one in the whole town (other than Regina and most likely Gold) has made any free choices from the moment they woke up there until Emma came to town. And, even with Emma, her influence is so far limited.

Ruby didn't choose her clothing or life - they were chosen for her by the curse. Archie didn't choose to be weak and indecisive - the curse did. Mary didn't choose to be colorless and meek - once again it was the curse. The curse chose for everyone and is actively making sure that no one is happy with their lives. The curse also made sure that Regina was on top so no one could ever conceive of crossing her until now.

Rumpel may be my favorite but I love all the characters!

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

Sorry for calling her names, but she's working in her own grandmother's restaurant, and she's allowed to wear a barely-there miniskirt and a tied-up blouse? The other non-choices you mention are at least believable, but "Red"'s wardrobe just makes no sense! She can dress however she wants outside of the restaurant, but I find it totally unbelievable, especially when she's working for her grandmother. It's just one glaring example of the many plot holes I keep finding as I watch the show. If they'd put Robert Carlyle in the scene, I'd totally be focused on him and forget how absurd the rest of the show is.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I do think it will make more sense once we see her fairytale story. I don't think that her outfits are only for eye candy but probably have some deeper meaning as well.

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

That's the thing that bothers me the most about the show, I think--that I find the fairy-tale part of it more believable than the Storybrooke part. Just for another example, I know their time is limited on the show, but those "debate" speeches they gave for why they should be sheriff: Sidney's was a one-line platitude (of course, he had to throw the word "reflection" in there to see if we were paying attention, haha), while in Emma's she not only fingers Mr. Gold for arson but says she has no evidence to prove it. And she's running to be chief law-enforcement officer for the whole town--and wins? (In fact, neither of them appears to have any qualifications to be sheriff.) So now that Emma's the sheriff, and people voted for her because she stood up to Mr. Gold, shouldn't she be investigating him (or at least in cahoots with him pretending to investigate him) for arson, not to mention tampering with the election process?

If only Robert didn't look so hot in his nice suits (and no scary makeup) in Storybrooke, I kind of wish they would just end the curse already and stick with the fairy tales, filling in all the backstories that the Grimms left out and tying them together. I thought Rumpel's backstory was really good compared to most of the others; in fact, watching it again, I can't understand why people are more afraid of Mr. Gold than Regina. (Sadly, I'm afraid the only way he's going to get out of his "Dark One" curse is the same way the previous one did--to die. And that'll be the end of the series. I can't be afraid of him because he's the ultimate tragic character, the exemplification of how good loses because evil doesn't play fair.) Anyway, that's the kind of show I was hoping to see "from the writers of Lost." Then again, Kitsis and Horowitz may have been writers on Lost, but they were not the masterminds/storykeepers behind the plot. (And even Lost lost its way for a while in the second and third seasons.)

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

Oh wait! I think I know why Red gets away with dressing like that at Granny's! Granny's not really her grandmother; she's the Big Bad Wolf!

[chloris.livejournal.com]

As you now know from our other conversation, I've not seen Lost so all your (I'm sure) meaningful comparisons are completely lost on me. :D

#3 Oooh! I like the idea of him SETTING it up and not just turning the encounter in his interest. Though (if he did) I would expect him to be subtle about it. He does have foresight so a hint or a casual comment at the right point could be all he needs to do to move things along.

#4 It would still be possible if he went through while still a young man AND there was time travel involved so he came out into our world at about the same time Emma did even though he left earlier. The thing is that Desperate Souls took place at least 60 years before the curse based on Geppetto - Rumpel was already firmly established as the Dark One when Geppetto was a boy and now he is 60-70 years old. And that's why I'm expecting Rumpel's GRANDCHILD to be in the present story and not his son.

#8 Heh. We can all enjoy our own versions of those daydreams if we wish.

Maybe he loves it so much because it feeds the dark curse inside him? It seems as though the darkness LOVES desperation and needs it in some way. Also, it may have a need to possess and acquire and when someone will do anything he can get more.

[sukybarbossa.livejournal.com]

#3 Hmm, that's right, he does have foresight; no wonder he's 20 moves ahead of everyone. (Cheater.) But the question is whether he has hindsight. I think he does.

#4 How does everyone know that Desperate Souls took place 60 years before the curse? I don't remember seeing Gepetto as a boy? I miss so much not being able to go back and rewatch the earlier episodes. (And be all Grumpy about it when I notice all the plot holes.)

#8 I still can't get past the idea that there's a battle going on between the darkness and the light inside Mr. Gold. (After all, Gold is shiny and bright!) Not after seeing his true self in Desperate Souls. Then again, I'm so blinded by his charm, if I were a character on the show, I would be total putty in his hands!

[d-garmo71.livejournal.com]

Gepetto is the little boy whose parents get turned into dolls in the Jiminy/Archie ep. Episode 5 I think. =)