Oh what a character!

[sparkythegeek.livejournal.com]

1. What do you like about Cora and/or her story?

2. What do you wish was different about her?

3. What did you feel as it was revealed that Rumple's interaction with the Mills family went back to Cora's youth?

4. Did seeing Cora young in "The Miller's Daughter" and in season 3 with Snow's father help make sense of who she became as an adult? Why or why not?

5. What was your reaction when Cora had her heart returned to her, only to be killed moments later during season 2?

Comments

[sanalith.livejournal.com]

1. What do you like about Cora and/or her story?
I. Love. Cora. Love her. She's one of my favorite characters on the entire show, and definitely my favorite villain. I think what I love most about her is that she is unabashedly herself. While I love villain redemption arcs, I also truly enjoy characters who are evil because it's simply in their personality. (Think Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter.) She knows what she wants out of life and she's going to do whatever it takes to get it. Her pride in herself and her abilities makes for a wonderful character. I also think she's one of the most believable characters on the show. An over-bearing parent is something we can all relate to, even if we've not had one ourselves. Finally, I love love LOVE that she turned out to be the Queen of Hearts (also one of my favorite literary characters). She had the perfect personality for it.

I do want to stress that I would despise Cora in real life. She's cruel, self-centered, and (literally) heartless. But all the things that make her a horrible human being make her a brilliant character.

2. What do you wish was different about her?
That she was still alive XDD I especially wish we'd had more time to see her in Wonderland.

3. What did you feel as it was revealed that Rumple's interaction with the Mills family went back to Cora's youth?
I honestly thought it was very fitting. I do often feel like this show tries too hard to make everyone related to one another (Peter Pan was a far better character before it was revealed he was also Rumple's father, for example.) But Cora as the Miller's Daughter really worked for me. It explained why she wanted so badly for Regina to become a queen and succeed where she failed. Again, it made her a very realistic character, since parents living vicariously through their children is an extremely common issue. And despite being a hardcore Rumbelle shipper, I actually found myself really enjoying the Cora/Rumple relationship. They played to one another's dark sides so beautifully, and knowing that Cora loved him so much that she had to rip out her own heart to deal with it...that's rather powerful.

4. Did seeing Cora young in "The Miller's Daughter" and in season 3 with Snow's father help make sense of who she became as an adult? Why or why not?
Again, I thought her backstory worked exceptionally well. It showed her determination and her single-minded desire to become royal. The only part I didn't quite understand was why she would want to marry her daughter off to the man who turned her away - and why he would want the daughter of a woman who betrayed him - but I think that's more of a plot hole than a character issue.

5. What was your reaction when Cora had her heart returned to her, only to be killed moments later during season 2?
I'm glad she had those few moments, that she could look into her daughter's eyes and realize, for the first time, how much she truly loved her and how proud she was of her. I wish she hadn't died, because she was such a wonderful character, but if she had to, I think this was a very fitting ending.

[crysania4.livejournal.com]

I have to laugh because our opinions on this are SO radically different. lol

[sanalith.livejournal.com]

hahaha I just finished reading yours XD Cora is such a polarizing character, and that's another reason I love her so much.

I will say that at first I felt the same way as you do about the Rum/Cora relationship. I felt like he was OOC being so confident around her after seeing how shy and uncertain he was around Belle. But then I read someone else's meta about how this is probably WHY he became so shy. He used to be confident and then he got his heart broken so unexpectedly and so painfully, and that's when he started being so unsure. That really resonated with me, so that's my head canon.

[crysania4.livejournal.com]

But see...he was super shy to start with...and then suddenly had all this confidence? I just don't buy it. I've tried to. But I just can't see it at all.

It would have all worked for me if Cora had attempted to seduce him and he went with it. But his acting all seductive from the moment he met her? Just didn't ever sit right with me.

[sanalith.livejournal.com]

But didn't he get all confident in general once he became the Dark One? He stood up to Hordor and Hook, two men who had previously terrified him, for example. It makes sense to me that he'd be more confident in all areas.

But again, I can totally see where you're coming from and why it wouldn't feel right.

[crysania4.livejournal.com]

He did definitely in some ways. But it still felt OFF to me. Either he was some sort of Don Juan all his life after becoming the Dark One (because would Cora have been the first? After like 200+ years why her suddenly?) and she affected him SO MUCH that he became the super shy person we see with Belle. Or he was always that way with women.

Even with Belle he acts confident at first and then gets shy when he has feelings for her. But even so, he didn't seduce her. And she was a beautiful woman who had pledged her life to him. Yet he didn't come on to her the first moment he met her.

So I guess we consider it in character for him to attempt to seduce Cora the first moment he meets her and we tie that into his being confident with Belle at first and then going all shy woobie on her when he started to develop feelings, then the conclusion is there was no love for Cora there.

I don't know. The whole thing is a muddled mess and every time I watch it I just CRINGE. (I also thought there was NO chemistry and the whole thing felt so forced so perhaps that's part of it.)

I just keep coming back to its not working for me, personally, so I sort of head canon the whole thing out of my mind most of the time.

[ramasi.livejournal.com]

Either he was some sort of Don Juan all his life after becoming the Dark One (because would Cora have been the first? After like 200+ years why her suddenly?) and she affected him SO MUCH that he became the super shy person we see with Belle. Or he was always that way with women.
I don't feel that's necessarily true though? In my mind the difference between Cora and Belle isn't so much that before Belle he's had his heart broken – I think it definitely made him a lot more vary about love and trust, but to me that explains why he wouldn't want to let someone in but not why he's so shy in general – but that he's attracted to very different things in them and they in him. The appeal of Cora is that she can relate to his anger and his hunger for power, and is, presumably, attracted to that in him; and those are things he's gained a lot of confidence about since he became the Dark One; he's turned his humiliation into a source of power (and that's something he teaches her).
But Belle is such a kind and pure soul (or at least Rumple very attached to seeing her that way), and she's interested in parts of him he doesn't have this sort of confidence about. So he's completely out of his depth.

Also, while he doesn't become shy around Cora, he certainly makes himself vulnerable in a very significant way; he's not brimming with confidence about the whole 'let's have a kid' thing, especially not when Cora turns his back on him.

[sparkythegeek.livejournal.com]

That makes a lot of sense.

[sparkythegeek.livejournal.com]

That's what I was thinking as I read both of these from my email!

[ramasi.livejournal.com]

I love Cora so much; The Miller's Daughter was a surprise to me, because I was expecting Rumple to be a sort of corrupting influence to her, or at least to somehow be responsible for that desperation she seemed to have in season two (what with her having so few things and being forced to give them up in the original fairy-tale); I liked that she actually had much more agency than that. And it was very fitting that the two of them had a pretty equal relationship, on an interpersonal level.

[crysania4.livejournal.com]

I will start off by saying I hate Cora. Well, young Cora. And I hated her whole backstory, especially with Rumple as the whole thing was just a horrible OOC mess. So with that in mind...

1. I liked Cora as Regina's ultra-controlling mother. I thought Barbara Hershey was brilliant. Cold, dark, the sort of creepy stage Mom who had powerful magic and used it any chance she got. I loved her interactions with Regina, how even as an adult she always seemed to regard her as this child who just didn't know better.

2. Nothing in present time. I thought she was just about perfect. So chilling and it all made sense once you realized she had taken her own heart out. Young Cora? Ugh I'd have done all of that over (including casting a different actress, but that's another story entirely). It was just a mess. For one, we see Cora with her heart BRIEFLY at the end of her life. And she's all happy smiles and bright eyes. Young Cora was played just like older Cora even BEFORE she took out her heart. It made no sense for there to be NO change. Basically, I thought the whole backstory sucked.

3. I freaking HATED it. Hated it with a fiery passion. It was so freaking horribly out of character compared to the Rumple we had seen in Skin Deep (and again in Lacey). He was all shy bumbling moron afraid of the pretty girl even coming close to him. And yet with Cora he was all sure of himself sex master? No. It didn't work for me. Not one bit. I hate that backstory so much that I downloaded it, removed all the FTL stuff and just watch the Storybrooke parts. I think I would have preferred her to just be his apprentice. There was NO reason to throw in a romantic relationship (or whatever the hell that was). It was just completely not believable in every way for me.

4. All I really realized about her was that she was a social climbing jackass from the beginning. She was willing to step over anyone to get what she wanted. So basically, it just really cemented my lack of empathy or liking for the character.

5. Die bitch die? I mean, she wasn't any better with her heart than without. Mostly I felt bad for Regina. And then didn't. Because her mother was a controlling bitch who killed the man she loved. Not exactly stellar mother material. I just wanted to scream at Regina to get over her death because she was a worthless nasty human being.

[bittybye2000.livejournal.com]

1. What do you like about Cora and/or her story?
I love a character that I can hate. The good villain that is actually a challenge for the good guys. Cora was perfect. I loved hating her.

2. What do you wish was different about her?
That she died so soon. A good villain should stick around for a while.

3. What did you feel as it was revealed that Rumple's interaction with the Mills family went back to Cora's youth?
Not very surprised. The only thing that would surprise me was if Rumple hadn't had something to do with EVERYTHING on this show.

4. Did seeing Cora young in "The Miller's Daughter" and in season 3 with Snow's father help make sense of who she became as an adult? Why or why not?
No but simply because time-line wise it made no sense and I was confused.

5. What was your reaction when Cora had her heart returned to her, only to be killed moments later during season 2?
YAY! The bit-witch is dead! Honestly Cora had no redeeming features I loved to hate her but I was glad that Snow killed her. Of course Snow had to ruin it by being all mopy that she killed the mass-murdering psycho that would have happily slaughtered her whole family for giggles.

[ramasi.livejournal.com]

I don't feel motivated to reply to all the questions because I'm not sure people are still reading 2 days later. But I wanted to say that one thing I found fascinating about the Zelena reveal is what it means about her duplicity vis-à-vis of Rumple: in the Miller's Daughter, it seems like at first she agrees to his deal (because she doesn't have many options), and then she changes the deal and he ends up with nothing; but now, with Zelena, she was originally going to try and double-cross him, since her first-born is someone he doesn't know about, and her agreeing to 'give' him his child looks like something that has an additional quality of sincerity.

[sparkythegeek.livejournal.com]

You know, I just re-watched The Miller's Daughter last night and was stunned, at seeing again, how it seems she was playing Rumple all along! I didn't catch it the first time through.

[ramasi.livejournal.com]

Do you mean that it seemed like she was never honest about giving him 'his' child too? Far as I remember I thought it's more likely she meant it than not, but it's been a while. In any case, she's good.

[sparkythegeek.livejournal.com]

Yes. I think she was tricking Rumple ALL ALONG to get what she wanted out of him, in order to gain power over the King and the royals.

I know adult Cora said that she really did love him, when they were in Mr. Gold's shop and that was why she'd ripped her heart out, but, it really seemed to me that she was just working Rumple to get what training she wanted from him.