Henry got it wrong, I think: Spoilers for "Heart is a Lonely Hunter"

[kaellite.livejournal.com]

So when I woke up, the following occurred to me


Henry  got it wrong (again).  He told Graham that the reason he was remembering was because Emma was Henry's mom and that if the Huntsman hadn't spared Snow, she (and Henry too for that matter) wouldn't exist.

He's (Henry) is missing the point and making it too personal, I think. 

It's not that Emma owes The Huntsman her life (by proxy), it's that Emma is the "Saviour".  So when Graham initiated intimate physicl contact with her, he 'woke up."  It's just that Graham/Huntsman was in a place where he was more susceptible to it (i.e. he's never been 'happy' being Regina's sex slave/boy toy, not in the 'real' world, or the fairty tale one.

Which makews me wonder if Regina overplayed her hand with him.  Unlike Snow or the other fairy tale characters, while she may interfere in them not having their 'traditional' happy ever after, she didn't keep them tied to her in the same relationship dynamic they had (or she would have wnated them to have) in the 'real world' as she had with them in the fairy tale one.

Which maybe why Graham was so suspcetible, the fairy tale persona and the 'now' one were already too intwined? So there wasn't as much of a 'fog' to lift?

Comments

[atatteredrose.livejournal.com]

I concur - it really needs to be Emma herself who is they key, otherwise we lose the magical FT plot and have to resort to some sort of underground resistance to organize everyone into a return to the "other realm." Logical for Henry to think it was more of a fated, true love situation though - he's a romantic at heart.

[owlsarenotwise.livejournal.com]

Yeah... then it becomes the Lost finale where -SPOILERS- everybody makes out and gets their memories back (yes, that is all I took from the finale).

Because it's likely that Ashley and Sean have kissed by now and they haven't been woken up. So it has to be more than that. Kisses are powerful in fairy tales but it can't be that easy.

Maybe it's a combination. Maybe David and Mary Margaret kissing... at a time when David was susceptible, the curse hadn't taken a hold on him yet, would have done the trick. Now that he's seen the windmill and had the fake memories planted it will take a little more than that.

ALSO also I agree/love that Graham was "weaker" because his role in Storybrooke wasn't all that different. Maybe the only difference is that he was cool being Regina's booty call until he actually stopped to question it. She made it so that he was at least partially willing to make her feel better.

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

You're completely right, Henry was taking it too personal. He was missing the point.

I don't know if it was because the two were too entwined (Regina and Graham) but the fact that Emma is the Hope, she is the key to break it so of course her kiss would blast through that fog. Lord help any other person she kisses in town ;)

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

Will it take a kiss? How will anyone's fog be lifted if it takes a kiss? Say, Snow white... that would be weird

I agree she is the "hope" to break the spell, but just like her mere presence started the clock ticking. I think her mere presence is what is going to start make the curse come crumbling.

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

I know her presence does affect the curse just by brig there but we saw how badly Graham was affected, how much and how strong those memories came on from kissing her. I'm not gonna say she's going to run sound making out with everyone to break the curse but it seems the quickest say since hugging and punchig or other touches have that's dramatic result.

[colonoscarpeay.livejournal.com]

To take what bloodysuicide69 said a little further.... With Emma being the key to destroying this curse, maybe Graham being "tied" to Regina in the fact that he was her sex slave is why the kiss "woke" him up? Maybe it takes bits of how each character is "tied" to Regina to get them to wake up. A simple touch here, a certain word there. There are endless possibilities with this one.

Sorry, didn't mean to butt in. ;)

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

That's very possible!

I would love for someone else to remember their past and NOT die! Very frustrating!

[colonoscarpeay.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know! Graham was one of my faves as well. I hope they don't, but writers can be fickle sometimes. XD

I was talking with my friend today about this and it got me to thinking. We didn't actually hear Graham be pronounced dead. I wonder if they are going to use this as a way for him to have "found" his heart. Pretty to think so and I know I'm only wishful thinking, but ...... still.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

maybe its exponential?

Emma kisses someone free, she and that person can then each kiss at least one more person free, and so on.

[storywriter84.livejournal.com]

Henry's also a child, who views the whole curse as personal (his birth mother and his grandparents are all involved and maybe more family that we haven't met). While you right, Henry's ten years old and doesn't view the whole picture.

Sorry if that sounds a little mean, but I can't think of another way to word it. (Tired.)

[hothobbit.livejournal.com]

I agree, with you AND the original poster

OP...you're absolutely right, IMO. But Henry is a 10 year old boy and I'm sure doesn't know about the whole Evil Queen/Regina forcing Graham/Huntsman to be her slave (in every way *cough*) and therefore that explanation would seem logical to him.

Does this make sense? I'm tired too. Blah.

[sanalayla.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I saw Emma as being a catalyst because she's The One Who Can Save Them All. The sense I get is that whenever Emma is around, the line between the FairyTaleLand and RealLife tend to get a little blurred. In Graham's case, he was reaching a boiling point and touching/kissing Emma made him cross over.

[dontbitethesun.livejournal.com]

You're right that Emma is the savior, but I don't think that Henry's wrong about the person connection. The question is not why Emma is special, but why is Graham remembering things now. Like you mentioned, Graham was at his boiling point, but so were a lot of other characters in other episodes. Archie stood up to Regina, Ashley had her baby, and David was going to leave his wife for Mary Margret, but none of them remembered anything. I think the personal connection to Emma, both in the fairy tale world and in the real world is what made the kiss work as a catalyst so that Graham would remember, and that personal connection was why he was first.

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

But Graham started remembering in his dream *before* the kiss, right?

[dontbitethesun.livejournal.com]

I thought it was after? He gets that little flash when he kisses Emma, she blows him off, he goes to Regina's, and then he has the dream. That's how I thought it went.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

dontbitethesun is right, he remembered as he kissed Emma, not before.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

I think most opinions in here are fairly right, but you are all forgetting one thing.

The power of a kiss in a Fairy Tale.

What would happen if David kissed Mary Margaret? I am willing to bet that both of them would start to remember as well.

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

That's a GREAT theory!! Which is probably why Regina was trying so hard to get them away from each other.

Now, Mr. Wale is all over MM. What is his back story?? He doesn't seem like a good guy.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

Thanks, it just seemed to obvious to me. I note that Jamie is still listed for the rest of the episodes, so I hope a way is found to bring him back in Storybrooke and not just him appearing in the Enchanted Forest. We also have the answer if Regina really does know what is going on. What the hell was Mr. Gold burying in the woods and I think The Huntsman's wolf brother is not going to be happy!

Which story had a whale in it? ;)

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

You think Monstroe? I don't think so. No other animals have turned into humans from Enchanted Forest. Or am I missing someone??

Maybe Mr. Gold wasn't doing anything in the forest, he just knew that Graham would be there and wanted to keep an eye on things.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

Mr. Gold goes into the forest with a spade and a heavy apron on all the time for no reason? Also walking out from behind a clump of bushes? Very suspicious if you ask me.

You forgot Jiminy. He was a human and then an animal and back to being a human in Storybrooke. I am pretty sure that Dr. Whale is Monstro.

[bloodysuicide69.livejournal.com]

But, Jiminy's happily ever after was getting out of his human form to become a cricket. So in Storybrooke, that was taken away.

Monstro was a whale, always and forever. Never a human. It'll be interesting to find out though. Maybe he is....

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

Jiminy's was more about getting away from his parents and the life of them forcing him to do their bidding that he didn't agree with. Turning into a cricket was his way of escaping. His initial plan was to remain human remember, with his parents being taken away by Rumpelstiltskin. When that didn't work, he needed to get away and not look like himself anymore. In Storybrooke he still has to do someone's bidding, Regina's. He hasn't escaped his past.

What about the mirror now being human? And we are sure we are going to see the Big Bad Wolf, who was always a wolf. Never say never in this world :D

[veracity]

But the whale is tied to Geppetto, who is tied to Archie. It's a chain of events. Right now the wolf isn't a central key. I have a feeling he will be, due to the red eye. Wasn't it called ruby? But Dr. McCreepy could be Monstro because he directly interferes with Geppetto, right? Wait until Pinocchio shows up and I think you'll see why Dr. McCreepy is involved.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

aside from the one who ate Jonah, what whales are in bedtime stories?

[d-garmo71.livejournal.com]

*jumps in* There's a theory that Dr. Whale is The Big Bad Wolf. Killer whales are called the wolves of the sea and he was verrrry interested in Ruby. *jumps out again*

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

But isn't Emma the Savior, the Chosen One, the Hope, etc. etc.? If anyone can break the curse just by kissing someone they love, it erodes the significance of her role as the only person who can save them. I mean, in the VO, there's the whole 'only one can save them'. If Snow and Charming remember who the yare with no input from Emma, it's not as dramatic and all, imo, anyway.

Besides, kisses aren't all-important in fairytale!verse- Snow kissed Charming and nothing happened.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

Their first kiss was the important one, and it was the one that brought Snow back to life. First kisses have always been important in lots of fairy tales. This was the first kiss between Emma and Sheriff Graham, with David and Mary Margaret, it would be their first kiss of their alternative characters.

Emma coming has started the 'saving' process, hence her being called the savior and the whole thing of being the only one to save them. It doesn't necessarily mean she has to physically be the one to touch people etc in order for it to start the process. Her presence is making people question and think. With Graham and Mary Margaret having the discussion about what Mary Margaret's memories are of their friendship, first meeting etc and discovering that she has no memory of any of it. Emma wasn't there for that discussion, but she was the catalyst that was leading up to the discovery.

The kiss I think you are talking about is in the pilot when Charming was killed by a sword not by magic. Snow was dead via magic, hence an out with a kiss being able to reverse the magic. This leads to a few other questions. If a kiss can bring someone back who is 'killed' by magic, does this mean there is a possibility of the Sheriff coming back? He is dead in Storybrooke, but Charming was seemingly dead in the Enchanted Forest and yet was in a coma in Storybrooke. Is the Sheriff really dead?

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Iiiinteresting. See, with Charming, I was was a bit O.o at that, 'coz it did seem like he was dead there and yet alive in a coma here. And rescued by Regina, no less, which...revenge-wise, is a bit weird, but hey. Anyway, that seems to suggest that Graham could conceivably return, but from what the actor's said, I don't think it's likely. But still possible, if they come up with a storyline for him.

Your idea of Emma as a catalyst is an interesting one, although I still prefer to think she's the only one that could spark their memories. Her being the one to prompt people to question their surroundings and existence, leading Graham to talk with MM, is fine, I think that's great that characters are getting to interact with new people instead of everything being through Emma, but memory-wise, personally, I'd rather it was just Emma's influence. But obv YMMV, and I'll be interested to see which route the writers go.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

oh.
I had thought Charming was dying as everything was beginning to change...hence the coma.

[nikki4noo.livejournal.com]

It could be. There are lots of lovely questions still left unanswered for us to wait and see about. These are the same people who worked on LOST so I expect a lot of red herrings and twists. :)

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>so I expect a lot of red herrings and twists.
AND EIGHT SEASONS!

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

we may need to take "fairy tale" with a dash of salt....King Midas is a tale, but I don't think he'd be a fairy tale.

[hothobbit.livejournal.com]

King Midas is from Greek mythology, the original form of "fairy tale" TBH ;)

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

that's why I wrote a fic where Romulus is the Huntsman's brother.

[richyl88.livejournal.com]

I agree. I get why Henry thinks that though,he's a kid so he still thinks in aboustlotes. I'm hoping more people will start to question things soon. I don't want to wait untill the season finale for another one to remember!

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

when I saw the preview, I thought "wait, he's going to remember his fairytale life because Emma kisses him? okay...but if they expect her to do that to free everyone in town, Henry may not like how long it takes." :)

also, I'm a little upset that the Mayor has magical hearts in her father's tomb.
(upset partly because I thought everyone in town had their memories overwritten...and partly because it begs the question of why she didn't use magic against Emma?)

[hothobbit.livejournal.com]

Why does the 'magical hearts in her father's tomb' upset you? I mean, she killed her father for his heart to enact the curse...so I see where the "heart" theme is kind of going

And not everyone in town has had their memories overwritten. The Queen/Regina remembers because she's the one who started the curse. She knows and remembers everything. And Rumple, well...I hear we find out more of what he knows in the next episode (unfortunately not until Jan. 8th!)

Plus, we still have the author of the fairytale book out there somewhere...I'm guessing there's more twists in turns heading our way. Not everything is black and white.

I don't think Regina uses magic against Emma because I'm assuming there is no magic in "the real world" Storybrooke.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>Why does the 'magical hearts in her father's tomb' upset you? I mean, she killed her father for his heart to enact the curse...
the Evil Queen did that.

and you answer your own question:
>I don't think Regina uses magic against Emma because I'm assuming there is no magic in "the real world" Storybrooke
Except for the hearts, it seems...and if the hearts are an exception, how many other exceptions are there?

>Plus, we still have the author of the fairytale book out there somewhere...I'm guessing there's more twists in turns heading our way. Not everything is black and white.
thankfully.

>And not everyone in town has had their memories overwritten. The Queen/Regina remembers because she's the one who started the curse. She knows and remembers everything. And Rumple, well...
What I thought was that, Mr. Gold had the best odds of remembering the enchanted world - simply because it was his level of magical power which made the spell happen.
(remember the conversation between the Evil Queens)

as for Regina...as bad as Henry thinks his mom is as Mayor, an Evil Queen would be worse.
(that and there are things in this world that we never want Evil Queens to get their hands on)

ow...plot bunny bit me.