Discussion Questions for The Outsider

[chloris.livejournal.com]

A bit late this week, but I have my questions and discussion points for the episode. My review is here.

1. Once again there is a twist at the end so we'll start there. What does it mean that Belle has lost her FLT memories? Do you think she had any memories of Storybrooke other than the secret prison? Gold says it can't be undone. Can it be undone and, if so, how quickly do you think they'll resolve it? Will Gold be willing to leave Storybrooke while Belle still can't remember?

2. Perhaps what will bring back her memories is True Love's Kiss. But we know that won't work if the other person doesn't remember being in love. Will we get an arc of Rumpel trying to get Belle to fall in love with him again? Perhaps that is what he needs to get himself actually on the road to redemption.

3. Who is the Outsider? From his license plate he is from Pennsylvania. Do you think he is a 'true' outsider or someone who has a connection to FTL?

4. Well, Archie is free again! Nice funeral though. Has the damage been done even if they now know she was innocent?

5. Okay, it's getting silly. Where the hell is Pinocchio? He is (last we saw) a magical, wooden puppet meaning he can't leave town since no magic means dead hunk of wood. Archie was DEAD. He would be at the funeral. Unless...the Blue Fairy managed to change him back to human, gave him a task, and sent him out of town. If they ever tie up his storyline I expect an explanation about this.

6. Just how suicidal is Hook? I've lost count of how many times he has asked someone to kill him (twice at least in this episode alone). Is he that unhappy with his life or is there more to it?

7. Also, was there more to his plan other than 'let the Dark One beat me to death'? For a man who has spent 300 years planning his revenge he seems to have NO PLAN. Knocking Belle over the line was complete luck. Luck and the bit where Gold apparently didn't even tie him up so Hook couldn't come after them. Of course, if he had killed Hook in the first place all those years ago he would have the bean and there would be no curse!

8. Did the Snow/Charming story line work for you in this episode? It does make sense they would be thinking about a larger home and it provided a good jumping off point for a discussion about what each of them want for the future. However, it was a b-story with little connection to the main story.

9. Was anyone else happy to see Belle surrounded by books in this episode? In both the flashbacks and the present she used the power of research to solve problems.

10. It was nice to have Prince Phillip on screen again. I wonder if we are going to see more of his travels with Mulan or if we'll skip to Mulan and Aurora saving his soul.

Comments

[seldonp38.livejournal.com]

Regarding Hook - getting revenge with Rumpelstiltskin and dying in order to meet Milah in the afterlife only mattered to me. It wasn't a matter of simply killing Belle. He wanted to separate Belle and Rumpel in order for the latter to suffer. Perhaps he wasn't really prepared to kill Belle to achieve his goal . . . at least not in Storybrooke. He figured if Belle witnessed his death at the hands of Rumpel, she would not want anything to do with the latter. But that did not work. So, he found the opportunity to try something else . . . get a way to force Belle to cross the line for the city limits and erase her memories. I suspect that Smee must have told him a lot more of what was going on than Archie. How else did he know about Bae's shawl and the matter regarding the town's line?

As for his desire to die, I believe Cora quickly surmised in "Into the Deep" that getting revenge meant a lot more to Hook than his personal safety . . . which is why she abandoned him over the beanstalk matter.


Of course, if he had killed Hook in the first place all those years ago he would have the bean and there would be no curse!

Are you referring to the time when Milah first left Rumpel? I didn't know that Hook would have been willing to kill Rumpel back then.

I think the disagreement between Snow and Charming is an opportunity for their relationship to become a lot more interesting. Let's face it. They haven't been that interesting since they had an affair as Mary Margaret Blanchard and David Nolan. They need internal conflict to make their story interesting.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

I do think there is more to Hook than that and there is something we don't know yet about his seeming death wish. Yes, like Regina, Hook wants his enemy to suffer even more than he wants Rumpel dead and hurting Belle is an excellent way to achieve it. However, there is something off with this willingness he has to die before he has any revenge.

And I agree that Smee told Hook a great deal about Belle and Bae and what Gold has been up to.

Are you referring to the time when Milah first left Rumpel? I didn't know that Hook would have been willing to kill Rumpel back then.

No. I'm talking about Rumpel killing HOOK. When Rumpel confronted Hook and Milah if he had killed both of them, Hook would not have been able to hide the bean in his other hand. Even if Rumpel had killed the entire crew he would have caused much less death and pain than he did otherwise.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

1. I hope they'll keep Belle without memories for a while, it'd probably be good for her to get a fresh start. Though it's possible she might have some fake Storybrooke memories in there; after all, David had some of those after a while!
2. Most likely, yes.
3. I don't think it'll be an actual outsider, but in a way it'd be more interesting if he was!
4. Not really answering your question, but I do wonder if they'll ever find out who realy died, and if they'll remake the grave to fit that.
5. I want Pinocchio back too. I don't even like August that much, but it's just silly at this point. There have been other characters lost in Mandyland too, like Kathryn and Ashley, but August is definitely the most noticeable one.
6. I honestly didn't get the feeling that he was suicidal. I don't think he cares about his life, but he cares about finishing his vengeance. Rather, the way he was goading Gold and the way he goaded Cora a few eps ago makes me think that he has some kind of protection that makes him hard to kill.
7. His original plan was to plain kill Gold, since he expected Storybrooke to be without magic. He's been winging it since he came to town, but yes, I do think he makes some kind of plans, because otherwise he's just too stupid to live, at this point.
8. Eh. But I'm usually eh about those two.
9. I found her use of research in the present a bit strange. "Oh, a knot! He came on his ship!" Uh... because he couldn't just have brought that knot along anyway? But it's good to see her be a bit proactive, anyway.
10. I think it's most likely that we'll see those two in flashbacks, but as a Sleeping Warrior shipper I'd rather see their future. (Threesomes!)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. Ah, but the curse is broken so it can't implant new ones into her! And, since she was never intended to be outside the asylum, the curse may never have given her anything but memories of her cell. We shall see.

3. No? If this is someone who has a connection to FTL there had better be a good explanation as to why no actual outsiders wandered in yet.

4. I don't think we'll find out but I hope they do. In as much as fictional characters can do anything. :)

5. August is fine though I don't really miss him as a character but even more than other long gone characters he is connected to the ongoing storyline! I do rather wish they had been able to bring back a lot of the characters from season one for the first episode of s2. A little montage of reunions and returned memories would have been nice.

6. Yes. Something is going on there! Did he do something with his heart I wonder?

9. It was a bit of a leap but maybe it's not so much for fairytale characters. They seem to have different rules and can go from A to Z directly without having to consider the other letters.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

the curse may never have given her anything but memories of her cell.

In a way, that would now give her the chance of having a wonderful time. Imagine finding out about flowers, puppies, rainbows, candy, hot baths and carousels all in a very short timespan.

No? If this is someone who has a connection to FTL there had better be a good explanation as to why no actual outsiders wandered in yet.

If he dies or leaves quickly, it might be an outsider, but I find it unlikely that one would stick around. Though it might make for a good story, so who knows?

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>there had better be a good explanation as to why no actual outsiders wandered in yet.
I think there have been - but it was during the 28 years - deliveries to Granny's place and the hospital, transporation (how'd Henry leave town to get Emma?)

[seldonp38.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that ever since "The Outsider" aired, there has been a great deal of hostility toward Hook . . . especially by the Belle/Rumpel shippers. I guess I can understand that. I had supported their relationship back in Season 1 and at the start of this season.

But I have been less enamoured of them lately. After Belle had stated her intentions of keeping a distance from both Rumpel and Maurice in "The Crocodile". Yet, she broke this vow by the end of the episode. She forgave Rumpel a lot faster than she did her father . . . and I found that disturbing. But that was nothing in compare to her attitude in "The Outsider". Despite Rumpel's lies about Milah's death, despite her discovery of the truth from Hook and despite witnessing Rumpel's attack on Hook; she remained blindingly loyal to him. She didn't even call him to the carpet for lying to her about the cirumstances surrounding Milah's death.

I'm sorry, but their relationship was getting too unhealthy for any continuing support on my part. If they ever get back together . . . I hope it's on a more healthy level. As for Hook, I'm simply curious to see what is going to happen to him. What he did was wrong. But I cannot view him in a lesser light than Rumpel. And I wasn't that particularly thrilled by Belle's penchant of enabling Rumpel's questionable behavior.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

*shrug* I don't feel any need for fictional relationships to be healthy (for instance I love Rumpel/Regina and that is anything but healthy) so long as they are interesting. Belle losing her memory has the potential of providing an interesting storyline for them and I'm happy to see where it goes.

Also, I don't find it surprising that Rumpel doesn't know the first thing about having a functional relationship. He has never had one. Add in three centuries of seeing everyone around him as pawns and he has some work to do.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

there wasn't time (scriptwise) for her to call him to the carpet - the Belle personality was a goner by the end of the episode.
(though if she had crossed the town line without having forgiven him, that'd be angsty on his part, yes? though, would she have gone to the Boundary if she hadn't forgiven him?)

[chiefuku.livejournal.com]

1. I have a feeling that Belle will stay without any FTL memory and that she has false Storybrooke memories. I really hope they find a way to break this course for both her (and Sneezy) regain their memories, though it might take some time.

2. I'd love if the True Love's Kiss would be the way of bringing Belle's memories back, as it was with Snow and Charming. However, this time it's a bit different, as Snow forgot only about Charming and Belle forgot everything about her true identity. That said, it'd still be interesting if we got a Rumple's arc in which he tries to win Belle back by making her fall in love again with him, it'd surely be his path to redemption (other than reuniting with Bae).

3. Have no idea, but hope we can get the answers in the upcoming episodes.

4. The damage surely has been done and I'd love to say that it could be fixed by Emma, Henry and "the two idiots" apologising to Regina, but with Cora hanging around, I'm not sure anymore. :/

5. That's exactly what I've been wondering about ever since the season premiere and "Tallahassee". Can't wait to know of his whereabouts.

6. I think there's more to it and that he's not suicidal.

7. Remember at the beginning of the episode when he threats Archie and tries to force him to tell about the dagger and Archie says he doesn't know about it? I'm sure Hook is pretty much willing to live at least until he finds it.

8. I loved the scenes because I love Snowing's interaction in Storybrooke, but yeah I have to agree with you that it was a bit off from the main topic.

9. I was very happy that they've shown this side of her, that you can win a fight without using much of physical strength.

10. To be honest, I never cared much about Prince Phillip and Mulan (plus Aurora) storyline, but this episode made me like them a bit more. :)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. I'm sure she has SOME sort of Storybrooke memories - not like David - but did the curse bother giving her a childhood or is the asylum all she can remember?

2. Yes, if TLK is the thing it will be more difficult for Gold - and I'm okay with that. I want him to work for it if they go that way! He will at least have the benefit of Belle being drawn to him (as David and Mary were) which does give him a chance.

4. Cora is going to do her best to reel Regina in and she has the advantage of installing Regina's buttons.

5. I just hope they get the actor back at least to wrap up his story.

7. We now have a whole list of characters who know about the dagger and would like to get their hands on it. Not so good for Rumpelstiltskin!

10. Well, that's good! Since I'm sure we are going to see more of them in the future.

[just-ustas.livejournal.com]

my only hope with dagger - it's not working here in real world. so even if they find it, they need to bring the dagger and rumpelstiltskin (and maybe everyone) from storybrooke back to FTL.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Ah, but now we have magic! Back in The Return last year it was still the land without magic. It's all different now and it is likely the dagger is back in play.

On the plus side, Carlyle will act the hell out of it and however has the dagger had better be very specific in what they want since we know he is very slippery with words.

[just-ustas.livejournal.com]

*wink* so my second hope - magic work there another way then in FTL. so maybe the dagger has there another ideas too.

[felaries65.livejournal.com]

That said, it'd still be interesting if we got a Rumple's arc in which he tries to win Belle back by making her fall in love again with him, it'd surely be his path to redemption (other than reuniting with Bae).


What if Rumpel manages to retrieve Belle's love again? Who is to say that he will not start the same crap again by showing one face to Belle and hiding his darker nature? You know . . . lying to her again?

[chloris.livejournal.com]

It's possible of course! However, it would be boring since we've already seen that between them. I would hope the writers would go somewhere new with their story.

[chiefuku.livejournal.com]

There is a big possibility of it to happen if the show conducts Rumple's redemption plot in a rushed way. That's why I think it's gonna take quite some time for Rumple to retrieve Belle's love.

[aleysiasnape.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering who the outsider could be too. From the way they talked about him in the previews, it looks like they were plotting to prevent the outsider from leaving.


And since Emma knows from Archie that Regina is innocent. I wonder if she's going to try to find Cora?

[chloris.livejournal.com]

He represents danger and it will interesting how they respond to it. These characters are supposed to be the good guys in the story. If they plot to harm the outsider then they have considerably more grey to them than one would have thought.

I'm sure she will! But I don't think Cora is going to be hard to find now that she isn't trying to plan a sneak attack.