We Are Both Discussion Questions
Oct. 10th, 2012 01:43 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
chloris.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
abc_onceuponI wrote up a long review of We Are Both and now I have my questions and discussion points for episode as well.
1. Once again let's start with the end. With CORA. Now that was a twist! Why is she locked up? I don't think her evil was widely known so did she make a power play and get slapped down? Also, how did she get back from the annoying little world Regina sent her to? Did Jefferson make a hat that worked or was it the curse that sucked her back in? If she could have gotten back on her own I believe she would have done so.
2. Relatedly, who else is now completely on board with Cora being sent to Wonderland and becoming the Queen of Hearts? She did go through the LOOKING GLASS, both she and Regina were taught by Rumpel and both have a heart vault, and it was clear in Hat Trick that the QoH and Regina had a history. Being in post curse FTL does not mean anything about where she was before. This is about 12-15 years of elapsed time later. There is nothing saying she could not have gotten back!
3. So Rumpelstiltskin WAS Regina's teacher in magic! Fascinating. It seems as though Regina had a great deal of magical potential of her own and Rumpel provided the knowledge to use it. This bit of backstory also makes it clear that Regina did not have to marry Leopold. Only Cora was forcing Regina to remain and marry him and Regina (with Rumpel's help) pushed Cora through the looking glass before the wedding. (They are discussing the upcoming wedding in the scene when she does it.) Now I want to know why she turned around, went back, and married him anyway. Just for revenge? Also, I'm curious as to WHEN she marries him. Did she leave to learn magic and then come back later? Was being free not enough with Daniel dead and she couldn't let it go? (like Snow when she forgot Charming)
4. Another piece of Regina's backstory was revealed, or at least strongly implied to the point where I'm considering it canon, which was that Regina was indeed The Baby Who Got Away from the original tale. In Stable Boy Daniel mentions that Cora was a miller's daughter and now Rumpel talks about how he held Regina as a baby and how they were supposed to be together. Cora is definitely evil but I can't wait to find out how she tricked him out of his price. Maybe that's why he never changes his terms now. (Oh, and I've seen speculation that Regina is his daughter and that's why he held her as a baby. I think there is no way he is. We've seen him with Bae and we know what he would do for his child. Not buying it for a minute.)
5. Now, I know that the show is all about evil being made not born but I wonder how Cora was before she met Rumpel. He tells Regina that she looks nothing like her mother and wonders how they could even be related. (We're not talking looks here - we're talking personality.) This makes me think that Cora, while she might not have been evil at the beginning, was still most likely power hungry with a big ruthless streak. Will Cora be shown to be sweet and innocent, corrupted by Rumpel, or bad from the start?
6. I've seen some discussion of Bae's age and of Rumpel's age recently that I want to mention. First Bae - Rumpel talks about Bae crossing the barriers of time and space and tells the Blue Fairy he has all the time in the world to make the curse so I'm not sure why people keep trying to figure out how old he is. He will be as old as the plot requires! *g* All we know is that he will be older than 14 since that is how old he was when he fell through the portal. Second Rumpel - the flashbacks with Regina are not even close to the oldest flashbacks we've seen with him. These were 12-15 years pre-curse and we already know he well established as the Dark One 50 years before that with hints of many more decades or centuries. (Which is also why figuring out Bae's age is futile. If the curse couldn't move through time he's long dead.) His makeup was off in the episode but as far as I can tell that's a production issue. As for his voice, I found it in the normal range of Rumpel-voice especially since he tends to change it depending on who he is talking to.
7. So Rumpel planned everything EXCEPT the bit where breaking the curse meant he would lose his FTL memories if he left town. He seems to be quite confident that he aimed the curse at the approximate time and place Bae ended up (see maps of only the northeast US in his pack) but left out a crucial detail. Being Mr. Gold only was not going to help him at all so he's stuck. Also, what was everyone else thinking? If they lost their memories of FTL and of Regina the Evil Queen wouldn't they simply turn right around and go back home to Storybrooke? Like Sneezy! Where they have jobs and homes and friends they remember.
8. Hey, August is alive! Or alive-ish at least. We got to see him blink his eyes this episode and he somehow got out of the bed. On his own steam (if he moved his eyes it's likely he gained control of the rest of his body as well) or did someone take him? Also, I'm thinking he could not have sent the note in episode one. If he just now soaked up enough magic to move his eyes then he was in that bed for the first day of the curse breaking. (Remember it's only been 24-48 hours since the curse broke.)
9. And Jefferson is as crazy as ever! Maybe more so since he seemed to be having a lot of trouble keeping it together when talking to Charming. However, he could have sent the note since he didn't get stuck in his car until the wraith came through, several hours post-curse.
10. Will Regina's desire not to turn into her mother be enough to keep her on the straight and narrow road to redemption? It was enough to convince her to let Henry go instead of keeping him prisoner but not enough to let the book go. Not necessarily to burn it since it could be useful for good purposes as well! But she didn't let it out of her control either. Was anyone else happy that Henry got to talk to her about what she did to him by making feel as though he was going crazy and making sure no one else would ever believe him? Both of them got started on repairing their relationship in this episode.
11. Charming - hotter than David or MUCH hotter than David? He is short tempered, thinks with the point of his sword, and doesn't seem to have learned of the word tact but he is also confident, forceful, and capable of making a good speech when needed. Snow might have been the one who did most of the talking but it's good that he is learning that he can do it too.
12. In the scene where Charming gets the finding potion, note what Gold is holding! Baelfire's ball which we saw in The Return. I think that might answer how he planned to find his son. Thoughts?
1. Once again let's start with the end. With CORA. Now that was a twist! Why is she locked up? I don't think her evil was widely known so did she make a power play and get slapped down? Also, how did she get back from the annoying little world Regina sent her to? Did Jefferson make a hat that worked or was it the curse that sucked her back in? If she could have gotten back on her own I believe she would have done so.
2. Relatedly, who else is now completely on board with Cora being sent to Wonderland and becoming the Queen of Hearts? She did go through the LOOKING GLASS, both she and Regina were taught by Rumpel and both have a heart vault, and it was clear in Hat Trick that the QoH and Regina had a history. Being in post curse FTL does not mean anything about where she was before. This is about 12-15 years of elapsed time later. There is nothing saying she could not have gotten back!
3. So Rumpelstiltskin WAS Regina's teacher in magic! Fascinating. It seems as though Regina had a great deal of magical potential of her own and Rumpel provided the knowledge to use it. This bit of backstory also makes it clear that Regina did not have to marry Leopold. Only Cora was forcing Regina to remain and marry him and Regina (with Rumpel's help) pushed Cora through the looking glass before the wedding. (They are discussing the upcoming wedding in the scene when she does it.) Now I want to know why she turned around, went back, and married him anyway. Just for revenge? Also, I'm curious as to WHEN she marries him. Did she leave to learn magic and then come back later? Was being free not enough with Daniel dead and she couldn't let it go? (like Snow when she forgot Charming)
4. Another piece of Regina's backstory was revealed, or at least strongly implied to the point where I'm considering it canon, which was that Regina was indeed The Baby Who Got Away from the original tale. In Stable Boy Daniel mentions that Cora was a miller's daughter and now Rumpel talks about how he held Regina as a baby and how they were supposed to be together. Cora is definitely evil but I can't wait to find out how she tricked him out of his price. Maybe that's why he never changes his terms now. (Oh, and I've seen speculation that Regina is his daughter and that's why he held her as a baby. I think there is no way he is. We've seen him with Bae and we know what he would do for his child. Not buying it for a minute.)
5. Now, I know that the show is all about evil being made not born but I wonder how Cora was before she met Rumpel. He tells Regina that she looks nothing like her mother and wonders how they could even be related. (We're not talking looks here - we're talking personality.) This makes me think that Cora, while she might not have been evil at the beginning, was still most likely power hungry with a big ruthless streak. Will Cora be shown to be sweet and innocent, corrupted by Rumpel, or bad from the start?
6. I've seen some discussion of Bae's age and of Rumpel's age recently that I want to mention. First Bae - Rumpel talks about Bae crossing the barriers of time and space and tells the Blue Fairy he has all the time in the world to make the curse so I'm not sure why people keep trying to figure out how old he is. He will be as old as the plot requires! *g* All we know is that he will be older than 14 since that is how old he was when he fell through the portal. Second Rumpel - the flashbacks with Regina are not even close to the oldest flashbacks we've seen with him. These were 12-15 years pre-curse and we already know he well established as the Dark One 50 years before that with hints of many more decades or centuries. (Which is also why figuring out Bae's age is futile. If the curse couldn't move through time he's long dead.) His makeup was off in the episode but as far as I can tell that's a production issue. As for his voice, I found it in the normal range of Rumpel-voice especially since he tends to change it depending on who he is talking to.
7. So Rumpel planned everything EXCEPT the bit where breaking the curse meant he would lose his FTL memories if he left town. He seems to be quite confident that he aimed the curse at the approximate time and place Bae ended up (see maps of only the northeast US in his pack) but left out a crucial detail. Being Mr. Gold only was not going to help him at all so he's stuck. Also, what was everyone else thinking? If they lost their memories of FTL and of Regina the Evil Queen wouldn't they simply turn right around and go back home to Storybrooke? Like Sneezy! Where they have jobs and homes and friends they remember.
8. Hey, August is alive! Or alive-ish at least. We got to see him blink his eyes this episode and he somehow got out of the bed. On his own steam (if he moved his eyes it's likely he gained control of the rest of his body as well) or did someone take him? Also, I'm thinking he could not have sent the note in episode one. If he just now soaked up enough magic to move his eyes then he was in that bed for the first day of the curse breaking. (Remember it's only been 24-48 hours since the curse broke.)
9. And Jefferson is as crazy as ever! Maybe more so since he seemed to be having a lot of trouble keeping it together when talking to Charming. However, he could have sent the note since he didn't get stuck in his car until the wraith came through, several hours post-curse.
10. Will Regina's desire not to turn into her mother be enough to keep her on the straight and narrow road to redemption? It was enough to convince her to let Henry go instead of keeping him prisoner but not enough to let the book go. Not necessarily to burn it since it could be useful for good purposes as well! But she didn't let it out of her control either. Was anyone else happy that Henry got to talk to her about what she did to him by making feel as though he was going crazy and making sure no one else would ever believe him? Both of them got started on repairing their relationship in this episode.
11. Charming - hotter than David or MUCH hotter than David? He is short tempered, thinks with the point of his sword, and doesn't seem to have learned of the word tact but he is also confident, forceful, and capable of making a good speech when needed. Snow might have been the one who did most of the talking but it's good that he is learning that he can do it too.
12. In the scene where Charming gets the finding potion, note what Gold is holding! Baelfire's ball which we saw in The Return. I think that might answer how he planned to find his son. Thoughts?
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Date: 2012-10-12 12:32 am (UTC)1. I would think having a portal jumper with a very strong motive for making a new portal would be quite useful if one wants to leave Wonderland. *g* As for capturing Dad, I'm sure we will return to that at some point. Non-linear storytelling is both interesting and frustrating.
2. Cora is not the type to ever give up or ever forgive.
3. We don't know enough yet but it certainly has me curious. Finding out that Regina DID NOT have to marry Leopold was almost as big of a twist as Cora showing up.
4. It was just a single line in Stable Boy that would have been easy to miss. I suppose if he doesn't know it's possible but I don't like it! I kind of ship them and father/daughter doesn't work for me.
7. He has been surprised/fooled before but never about any aspect of the curse! He has had everything so well planned out that him not realizing he couldn't leave yet was a shock for me. It's good for him though.
10. Hmmm. Yes, Regina is going to have to walk a fine line. Right now she has Henry on her side and he can have Charming protect her. But still he can't be there all the time and there are a lot of angry people in town.
11. Heh. Gold gets so many of the best lines. I love it well he trolls everyone.
12. I compared screencaps and if that's not the ball it looks just like it. But that would explain why he needed magic. Without it the potion wouldn't work and unless he had narrowed down Bae's location to a small town trying to find him without magic seems impossible. He doesn't even have an age to go by!
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Date: 2012-10-12 08:25 am (UTC)1. True, having the hatter there is probably going to be an asset for Cora if she is indeed the Queen of Hearts. I really quite love the non-linear storyline. I love fitting all the pieces together. It's fun and interesting. I agree though that how Henry got trapped in Wonderland in the first place is most likely going to be explained at some point down the road.
2. That is definitely true.
3. Yes, it makes you wonder about what their relationship actually was. And we know she doesn't kill him until Snow is grown up, so they were presumably married for at least 10 years or so. I wonder if their relationship was always rocky or if there were times, especially in the beginning when Regina and Leopold were close.
4. I really don't think Rumpel is her father... that's a bit too contrived. I think their true relationship is probably something a bit truer to the original tale.
7. It's true. He seemed to know every aspect of the curse including when it was going to be broken and all of that. I don't think he anticipated not being able to leave, it's almost like he could stand being trapped in Storybrooke because he thought that eventually he'd be able to leave.
10. Yes that's true. People will listen to Charming for now I think - although I'm not so sure about people like Doctor Whale - there could be some real trouble there I'll bet. And everyone in town has good reason to be angry. I wouldn't be surprised if she was forced to step down as Mayor.
11. LOL I love Gold's dialogue also. Especially now that everyone knows who they really are, I think we're going to get some more great zingers from him.
12. I d3efinitely think he needed magic. That's totally why he brought magic back - he needed it to find Bae. Also, I'm sure he probably missed the power of it.