Questions for Child of the Moon

[chloris.livejournal.com]

I'm quite late this time with my episode questions! But if anyone still wants to talk about it, I have some questions and discussion points for Child of the Moon.

1. Will Red ever find love where said potential love isn't killed off within the same episode he is introduced? Last time we had Peter and this time it was a two-fer with both Quinn and Gus/Billy killed before their time.

2. Also, Gus was a mouse in FTL with no indication in his dialog that he was human-turned-mouse. Were all the intelligent animals turned human in Storybrooke? Jiminy made sense since he started human but Gus not so much.

3. If a fairly strong looking freezer didn't hold wolf Red, how would some standard chains do so? I somehow doubt the library is extra reinforced. Yeah, I get that Charming didn't think she had hurt/would hurt anyone but turning into a wolf and not remembering what she did was exactly what got her into trouble in the first place back in FTL.

4. Chaining up Belle with a mob on the loose? Bad idea even if the poor girl didn't probably PTSD from all the other times. :)

5. It's apparently easy enough to learn to control the wolf that you can learn in a single evening. That seems a lot more useful than blacking out and depending on a cloak. The cloak certainly comes in handy when you don't want to become a wolf but knowing that you aren't going to eat your friends is even better, which makes me wonder why Granny rejected the technique so thoroughly. It seems as though Red found a middle way - in between the full wolf/reject humans way of her mother and the full human/reject the wolf way of Granny.

6. The sleeping curse is a nastier curse than we thought if it can still kill you, or at least hurt you, even after it's broken! However, no one under the sleeping curse seems to have suffered any physical effects (such as burns) while they were cursed. I wonder if the problem is the interaction of a more conscious mind which is merely sleeping with the netherworld.

7. Between Red as the wolf and Henry with his dreams there is a lot of talk about control and not giving into fear in this episode. Anyone else start thinking about Dune? Fear is the mind killer? I couldn't help it. Sorry... Seriously though, I think control is turning into a theme of the season.

8. How did King George (or Spenser...I have no idea what to call these people anymore, but then neither do they) get a hold of Red's cape? Was Gold involved somehow since he would be the most likely person to know what happened to it? Or maybe it was just luck and, once he had it, that's when he decided on the plan?

9. And what was with those lit torches? These people may have modern memories but they are still seriously old school. Ever heard of flashlights? Or do they think it's not a proper mob unless there is open flame involved?

10. Why not turn the diamonds into fairy dust right away? Everyone stay right there and get it done and test the hat! Is it a long process for some reason? And where did Charming think would be a safer place for the hat other than right with him? Obviously wherever he picked was not all that safe. Is it okay to blame that on his David side?

11. Why are only Aurora and Henry sharing the dreams? At the very least we know that Snow is both alive and had the same exact sleeping curse - and we know she did have nightmares so she is capable of visiting this netherworld. Is it because both Henry and Aurora were under the curse at the same time? Perhaps that's never happened before since it seems only Maleficent and Regina knew how to use it.

Comments

[dj-rocca.livejournal.com]

With Granny, maybe it was because she was FORCED to become a wolf. She had no choice, she was marked and changed. Anita and Red were born into the line.

With Anita, she was born a wolf, feeling that she was better than humans. Above them, they were underlings she could do with as she pleased. Fearing them but at the end of the day, she hated them.

With Red, she was raised by Gran, who obviously took her away from her Mother with good reason.

Honestly, Anita irked me on so many levels. And I DO NOT believe Quinn was a love interest for Red, it was screaming to me that Anita was his lover, not meant for Red.

[ashmh.livejournal.com]

I think it was wrong for Granny to take Red away from her mother. I feel that Granny was acting from a position of human arrogance. Considering that humans harbor such feelings toward animals - viewing Red's wolf side as "a monster", why should Anita be scorned for her views about humans?


Why not turn the diamonds into fairy dust right away? Everyone stay right there and get it done and test the hat! Is it a long process for some reason? And where did Charming think would be a safer place for the hat other than right with him? Obviously wherever he picked was not all that safe. Is it okay to blame that on his David side?


Why blame Charming's mistakes on his "David side"? Why not accept that Charming was capable of mistakes on his own right?

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

2: I found it very interesting because I'd just been wondering what happened to all the magical animals once they reached Storybrooke. In Enchanted, Pip turned into a non-speaking animal, but here it seems the animals are around in human form. So I guess the three little piggies and three blind mice and whatnot are around too. :-)

10: I guess they wanted to scare the wolf with fire, or possibly even set it on fire.

Also, I kind of wonder who'll serve as DA now that Spencer's been outed as a murderer. I imagine it'd make his job difficult...

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Yes, that is my thinking as well. Granny's story is quite horrific if you stop for even a moment to think about it. She was marked and changed and there is a very strong implication that she was raped as well. And all by the man who killed her entire family.

Also, with Anita I can see a certain amount of childhood rebellion. Where as Granny tries to keep Anita's wolf locked down Anita embraces it more.

Unfortunately we will never know for sure about Quinn! This show likes nothing better than killing people as soon as we know their names.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

It seems as though it was a choice between wolf arrogance and human arrogance. Either way they expected her to make a choice between being fully one or the other. I like that Red found a middle way but I wish they didn't have her kill her mother to get there.

Yes, yes. He's capable of mistakes. But I really grew to dislike David last season and this mistake is so stupid that I want to give it to David. :)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

2. Yes it does answer the question of what happened to them! But now I wonder why the curse was designed to do that.

10. Heh. I guess they did but it's still seriously old school.

I'm not sure if Spenser is still really a DA since it seems they are reverting to more of a FTL justice system.

[tony-roxy.livejournal.com]

I'd say that the animals are turned human because it would be easier to control a human than a wild animal, but I don't see mice or pigs being much of a problem in their animal state haha.

[comicbook-worm.livejournal.com]

1) At this moment I just another guy on the good guy side. And who lives for more than an episode. I love the women but I want to see some nice guys too. Or at least more Archie/Jiminy.

If Red/Ruby finds true love that would be cool too. *cough*EspeciallyIfIt'sBelle*cough*

2) I can buy that enchanted/sentient animals from Fairy Tale Land become human. As trying to animate a number of animals to seem/look...for lack of a better word, human-ish would be difficult and rather expensive. Better to save the CGI for Jiminy's cricket scenes.

Besides Jiminy doesn't have to be the only human that chose to be an animal.

3) Maybe the chains were magical? That's the only explanation I have.

4) I really hope Belle starts seeing Archie/Jiminy soon or at least we get an ep that shows how all this drama is affecting her. She ought to be reaching a breaking point by now.

5) That was the entire point of the ep. Red/Ruby choosing a way that appealed to both the human and wolf in her. Which could reflect the fairy tale characters finding a way to reconcile their FTL & Storybrooke personalities now that I think about it.

Granny reaction in FTL makes sense if you consider that the wolf that killed her family and marked her also happened to be her husband...It might be better to think that it can't be controlled rather than imagine a loved one didn't take every precaution to protect your other loved ones.

6) & 11) We should also consider that Henry was affected by the Sleeping Curse in a land without magic while Aurora was affected by the Sleeping Curse in a land broken by magic. Snow so far went through the curse "normally" and that's probably why she doesn't suffer the exact same dreams as Henry & Aurora now. It also can explain why Aurora & Henry are contacting each other on a space that usually doesn't seem to allow it.

7) Not really but then I've yet to read Dune, have on my to-read list though. To be honest I started thinking about having two sides competing to be your "true" self. And that the answer is, of course, that both sides need to be combined to make one final being. Which again ties into FTL & Storybrooke personalities being brought together.

As well as the ep talking about giving in to baser desires or to do the just thing, as unfair as it seems at the time.

8) I think I buy that George/Spencer (I pretty much "/" everyone except Charming because we're not sure what his really name is yet! And Rumple & Regina since they always knew who they were. And Snow because Snow/Mary Margaret is too much to type.) had it all along and realized what it was post the Curse breaking. Thereby using it to screw with Charming when he remembered all that happened between them.

Mainly because I can't figure why Gold would sell the cape to him since George/Spencer has nothing he wants/needs. Unless he's pissed Ruby/Red is becoming friends with Belle? Which seems way too petty for him especially if he wants to be in Belle's good books (Did not intend the lame joke.). And then you remember what he did to his wife...

9) They all saw Young Frankenstein before the murders at movie night or something? Or trying to embrace their fairy tale roots more, to remember who they were originally? Either way the effect was chilling and I worried for Ruby/Red even more.

10) I totally blame his David side for this. As well as fatigue from recovering his memories, losing Snow & Emma in the same day, and trying to keep his town/kingdom from revolting every time another crisis happens. The guy was justified in wanting to enjoy his hope for a little while. Although bad move with the hat. Even just leaving it with Regina or Rumple would have been a better option.

I can buy him not keeping it on him though. As acting Sherif, it would mean he has more of a chance of ruining the hat if he kept it with him and got into a fight. I can't blame him in thinking it would be safer away from him.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. Meghan Ory did imply that the look meant something but I'll wait until it comes up in the show to take it as canon. Also, something in the past between them (perhaps under the curse) doesn't really give Red a current love interest. I don't know if she needs one but if a new is introduced he better damn well last more than an episode or it's just sad.

As for Gold and Belle needing more non-romantic story lines, yeah Belle does need to get out there talking to people and making friends - and she has been. (Gold doesn't need it I think since he is a quite well developed character already.) But I also want to see them interacting together so we can see them do something other than break up, get back together, and break up.

I know a lot of people ship Red with Archie but I've never felt it myself. If the show goes there that's fine but I rather wish they would keep Archie as not needing romantic love. (Since everyone else on the show does.) And Red/Belle is a very pretty ship but more than it being ABC, the main theme of the show is true love and Belle already has one. Personally I've always thought she would be interesting with Jefferson.

2. Quite true and I guess that could be the curse logic behind it. Have a human mind? Be a human!

4. They do gloss over things a fair amount. But then so do the people in the original stories. It's all falling in love in an instant and brushing off huge traumas.

5. Perhaps Granny told Anita from when she was young so she would be prepared and decided not to made the same mistake with Red? Instead she made a new mistake. :)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. Heh. I know many people want Red and Belle together! I personally would be very surprised if that ever became canon since Belle already has true love. Red deserves a true love of her own who she doesn't have to share.

2. Until this episode I thought the animals who had never been human came over as normal animals even if they were 'humanish' in FTL. Now I want a fic where they all have a get together in Storybrooke and swap stories.

5. Perhaps a combination of the trauma of being forced into becoming a wolf and having her daughter go full wolf to the point of rejecting humanity. I can see why Granny would be extra cautious with Red.

7. Definitely read Dune when you get the chance it's an excellent book. There is a very important theme in the book about controlling your fear and never being controlled by it and both Henry and Red needed to learn to control themselves so that they could banish their fear leading to not needing to fear.

And that the answer is, of course, that both sides need to be combined to make one final being. Which again ties into FTL & Storybrooke personalities being brought together.

I like this! Red is the clearest example of the duality that everyone is dealing with.

8. And yet he let Belle go several times now without any violence. (Yes, there was violence when he thought she was betraying him back in FTL - and that wasn't a good thing - but none when she left.)

10. Charming has had a hard couple of weeks! I think he'll be quite happy to give the sheriff job back to Emma when she comes back.

[meepalicious.livejournal.com]

6. I wonder if the problem is the interaction of a more conscious mind which is merely sleeping with the netherworld.
Your mind makes it real?

This is actually the thing I'm most interested in from this season: the curse, and how it works one they wake up. Maybe the reason Snow isn't in the burning building is because she mentioned that she no longer has those nightmares. Either she "grew out of" them or somehow magicked them away, but it doesn't sound like she's had those dreams before, so why start again now?

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>7.
excellent point. didn't think of it before, but I'll be looking for ways to tie in Dune now.

(Captain Hook knew Captain Ahab, whose white whale was in fact a sandworm?)

>8.
that's why I don't think Spencer was acting alone - both the locating the hat & locating the cloak.

>9.
it does sort of explain 2.01, with Whale's ease of whipping up a mob...the bulk of the townspeople seem to be the folks who fairytales mention in passing with "and the people of the kingdom were happy under their new king" et al.

>11.
perhaps the sheer number of spells that Snow experienced (the cutting away of love, etc) negated the dreams and netherworld access?

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>She was marked and changed and there is a very strong implication that she was raped as well. And all by the man who killed her entire family.
implication? yes, she said there's nothing so (insulting) as being dismissed as insignifigant by an animal...and then she said the wolf came back and turned her.

I thought it was Dracula (and ensuing vampires) whose conversions involved sex or rape.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>And I'm still laughing at the fact that it was Victor Frankenstein the one leading a mob before. Him of all people, leading a mob!
who knows mobs better, though, right?
:)

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>feels lazy.
might be their attempt at even-handedness/fairness - think of all the people who have spent the last 28 years in elementary school or in diapers (surely the curse picked up babies, right?)

[comicbook-worm.livejournal.com]

1) Yeah Red(Ruby)/Belle will likely never happen but it's a fun pipe dream at the moment.

I am super excited by the BFFs plot going on at the moment and I do hope that continues going strong. I just want to see these two together on my screen and being awesome together. Their scenes in this ep were just so good and I really like how close they've gotten in so little time. So the BFF arc is a great thing at the moment because I'm liking their dynamic even more than I thought I would.

So hopefully, Red/Ruby gets a love that's worthy of her and has less angst than what she's faced so far. Which might also be something of a pipe dream but I can hope.

5) Yeah, Red's Mom would be another reason Granny felt she needed to protect Red from being the wolf. If her husband didn't make her weary about it, her daughter certainly would have. It would make the transformation seem to be much more of a curse at that point.

7) I will move up Dune on my reading list then. I sounds so good when I read what it's about.

I think Red/Ruby provides some of the most interesting commentary on duality and how to handle it. I don't think it's surprising that out of everyone in Storybrooke, it seems it's Red/Ruby & Granny who handle the duality thing better than most. They've had to do for much longer and cope with another entity that saw things different than their "standard" persona before anyone else.

8) And yet he let Belle go several times now without any violence.

This is pretty much why I ultimately doubt Rumple sold the cloak to George/Spencer. There's no reason for it and it would harm him more at this point than help. George/Spencer probably got lucky or stole it from someone who didn't know they had it. Then he plotted how best to use it to get back at Charming and try to regain some of what he lost.

10) Poor Charming. No wonder he wants to see Emma & Snow back beyond the fact that he misses them. He needs some type of vacation. Well, they all do at this point.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

Snow did say she didn't have the nightmares anymore but she didn't seem completely honest about it - more as though she was trying to comfort Aurora. If she still does get them maybe she learned to control them to some extent which could be useful when they try to communicate.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

7. I don't know if there are any other parallels but I couldn't help thinking about it then.

8. Ah. Now that would be interesting since right now I'm not sure who it would be.

11. She did say she had the dreams but they had faded and gone away. I guess the question is whether she was being completely honest or if she still has the dreams sometimes and could go in and meet Henry.

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>7.
there probably are other parallels.
(it being highly difficult to go from world to world without the right Guild Traders magic, being one)

>8.
>Ah. Now that would be interesting since right now I'm not sure who it would be.
my best guess would be one of King George's soldiers - we've met a few of them in FTL at least (the guys who told Charming not to try to kill the dragon - that his job was to get through this and save the kingdom, while the dragon was their job)

[rodlox.livejournal.com]

>I'm not sure if Spenser is still really a DA
maybe he's got the memories of training and studying for the job? (how accurate are anyone in Storybrook's memories in regard to RL professions? was one of the first questions Granny got asked post-Curse "how do you know how to make hot chocolate?" ? does Charming have military training, since David was in uniform?)

>since it seems they are reverting to more of a FTL justice system.
oh god, that's not a good thought.
(it seems to be mostly "the whim of the ruler"...while remote areas (at least the places where there's a high mortality rate) has "communal decisions aiming for majority/unanimousness")