Questions for A Land Without Magic

[chloris.livejournal.com]

It is time for my post on A Land Without Magic and it is my last one of the season! It's been fun and interesting getting different viewpoints and I hope to continue these next season.

1. Okay, let's start at the end. What is Rumpel's purpose in bringing magic to Storybrooke? This wasn't anything spur of the moment, nor could it have anything to do with Belle, so why? Simple lust for power? Or are we seeing the next step in his 'Find Bae' project and power is more of a tool than the central point? After all wandering about looking for a person of indeterminate age, name, and place of origin is not going to get you far in a population of nearly 7 billion. And why would Belle showing up change his plans? I don't think it would but it seems many have a perception that it should have. His vow to find Bae is always going to be more important than anything or anyone else.

2. As for why he didn't use the well to bring back Bae directly, if it was that easy to do I believe he would have. This was a long, thought out plan and I doubt he forgot to research the water and what exactly it could return. He was willing to give up power when he thought he had his son but not if he still needs to find him.

3. Is bringing magic necessarily a bad thing? He did use the power of true love not an evil curse so it is likely that, at worst, the magic itself is neutral. Also, if the curse breaking meant going back to FTL as expected everyone would have had access to magic anyway.

4. Did you expect Emma to believe so quickly in the episode? She has been fighting against the idea very hard but that doesn't mean she wasn't believing on one level while pushing against it on another. What she needed was a reason to believe which was stronger than her fear.

5. And Regina gave up ALL the info very quickly! Was it that there was no longer an advantage in pretending or that love of Henry trumped her desire for revenge? For a while at least. We will have to see if love of Henry will hold her back at all next season or if it turns to hate and bitterness.

6. Did Gold know that all Emma needed to do was believe and kiss Henry to save him (and break at least part of the curse)? I vote yes since he wrote it and specifically gave Emma power over the curse. In fact I think he depended on it and needed her to break the curse before he could start the next phase. Would the kiss have worked while Henry was still alive or did he need to 'die' first?

7. Would Regina's kiss have worked to save Henry? Does Regina truly love Henry or is it more that she WANTS to love him and needs to love him in order to have her happy ending?

8. How did Jefferson know about Belle and exactly where she was kept? All that watching he did paid off? Or perhaps Regina came to visit and chat during those 28 years? Or was he involved in grabbing her in the first place?

9. Will anyone notice that Sidney is in the asylum now too and let him out?

10. Rumpel has some VERY LONG cons that depend on a whole series of steps to pay off. Is he just that good at playing everyone or do you think he has plans A through Q and sometimes all the way to Z? At the very least he knew Regina well enough to know she would bring Maleficent over as a dragon even if he may have had a variety of plans to get the potion out of her. Now, why would she do that to her only friend? It's more dangerous to be her friend or family than it is to be her enemy.

11. WHAT are we going to call these characters next year to distinguish Storybrooke from FTL? Mary Margaret will be no more but will she be all Snow White or a mixture of the two? Will the economy of the town fall apart and end in chaos or will everyone still go to work? Come to think of it, all those rental agreements and loans are contracts and NO ONE breaks contracts with Rumpelstiltskin so they may have to go to work no matter what. Hmmmm...setting things up so Rumpel owns the town might have been a rather bad plan.

12. And then there is the issue of the favor Emma owes him. Now that magic is back I doubt she can say no without there being serious consequences no matter how she feels about him. Consequences such as him taking the baby that was owed him in the first place and perhaps even any second child they may have. (Since they did agree on two children.)

13. Where will the battle lines be drawn next year? Will it be a three-way fight with the Charmings, Regina, and Rumpel all on their sides? Or will Rumpel be against Regina but also a sometimes, untrustworthy ally to the Charmings depending on what he needs to continue his own plans? I have trouble seeing Rumpel as the Big Bad of the season since I don't think he cares enough about everyone else to want to fight them. He will have his own aims as usual and whether he helps or hurts is all going to depend on where you intersect with them. However, his anger for Regina may move him more towards actually helping those against her rather than the 'help' he usually provides.

14. How will Belle affect his plans going forward? She didn't make any difference in the magic issue (other than perhaps giving him more reason to do it so he can protect her as promised) but that is a dazed and confused Belle. But once she gets her bearings I have no doubt she will have an opinion.

Comments

[sensitivinferno.livejournal.com]

1. I don't see why Belle should have changed his plans at all. If anything, she's an added bonus. Operation: Find Bae has always been just that. He thought Belle was dead. Now he could have it all. Earlier in the episode, Charming says, "how did you get that?" in reference to the ring. Rumple says, "the same way I get everything I want. Magic." The same way I get everything I want. It's the only way he knows how to go about finding Bae. He doesn't know his age or even what name he's going by. He can't just drive around in his Caddy forever, realistically. I wonder if the magic may bring Bae to him?

2. I assume the well's magic couldn't return a whole person. I half expected Bae to roll out of there, but I wasn't too surprised when he didn't.

3. It's bad in the way that now Regina will have power again, I assume. But so will Rumple and the fairies, so I guess everything will even out in the end.

4. I was very surprised that her belief happened the way it did, but it was a pleasant surprise! They really hit the ground running. I think it was very obvious that part of her, very close to the surface, DID believe. There's only so much weirdness you can explain away before the curse actually starts sounding plausible.

5. A little bit of both, I'd say. I do believe she really loves Henry in some twisted, possessive way. She seems like she hasn't been THAT bad of a mom to him, other than keeping him in a cursed town and sending him to therapy. I think Regina is very lonely, and I think she WILL fight to get him back.

6. The kiss probably would have worked at any time, and I think Gold did know. He wasn't just going to peace out if he thought Henry might actually die, because I think he cares about Henry in a way. He had a son, after all. He knows. But I don't know if it worked because it was REALLY True Love's Kiss or because she's the Savior and her kisses always seem to have a bit of magic. Because Graham started to remember when he kissed Emma.

[sensitivinferno.livejournal.com]

7. No, I don't think it would have. It had to be Emma.

8. I think he's just very good at watching, waiting and gathering information. I don't think he was involved in grabbing her because I think he was already in Wonderland by then. He had to have been keeping that bit of info under his hat (haha) for the longest time, just as Regina was keeping Belle. Regina thought she had a trump card, but Jefferson really did. That's the beauty of that whole thing, IMO. Jefferson is going to be the one to get his revenge, and it's Regina's own fault for locking Belle up in the first place. SUPER BACKFIRE, GO!

9. Perhaps. But he's on a new series now, so it might not be for a while, lol.

10. Because Regina isn't subtle. Because Maleficent did try to defy her, and she hates that. Because just maybe, someday, she would have needed a dragon and thought that, if approached correctly, ol' Mal would have done something for her. There are tons of reasons, really. I think Rumples just knows human nature to its very core, and I think calling this a "long con" is a perfect description, lol. I'm sure being alive for centuries and studying EVERYTHING can make anyone pretty clever. He's really quite the evil mastermind. Not that I think he's all evil, but at the end of the day he created the curse that sacrificed their world and fucked EVERYONE just to find his son. So there you go. But I still love him. <3

11. I don't think we will need much distinction anymore. And Ginnifer Goodwin has already mentioned something about everyone having their FTL and Storybrooke memories at the same time. Which is good, or else they'd forget how to drive a car or use a microwave. I think seeing everyone deal with the repercussions of that will be interesting.

12. I was convinced that the favor would be for Belle, but joke's on me! Watch, they'll wait until the last season to put that thing into play.

13. I think Regina and King George are going to be the villains of season 2. Now that he's woken up, too, he's going to be PISSED about what Snow and Charming did to him (taking back the kingdom, probably locking him up) and he already seems to be an ally of Regina. So they will plot to take the town back over, Rumple will keep doing whatever it is he does, and the Charmings will form the REAL "Operation: Cobra" with all their old friends, plus probably some new ones. Also, I think they're going to be super pissed at Rumple once the full realization hits them. So he might need to lay low for a bit.

14. No doubt! I missed spunky, observant Belle. But she'd been through a lot in a very short amount of time. The stupid STUPID man just needs to EXPLAIN things to her this time so she doesn't think he's just choosing power over her again. Not that she thought he really was the last time, but he still needs to just grow a pair and tell her everything. I don't think she will change any of his plans. In fact, I think her presence may strengthen his resolve. He really has a chance at his happy ending, and I think he's going to fight tooth and nail to get it.

[akinarei.livejournal.com]

I don't think it had very much to do with Bea at all. Bringing back magic probably destroys the last of the curse, bringing back the original fairytale landscape they were all taken from.

[seijuro-kasumi.livejournal.com]

1. I agree that finding Bae is always at the top of his to-do list. He had to wait for curse to break first and agree had it been this easy to bring magic back he would have done it a LOT sooner. He was planning a "vacation" in the previous episode, checking his globe and all, so i believe he was planning to go in search of Bae, fully confident that Emma was well on her way to breaking the curse. And the fact that he was looking for his "vacation" destination means he has a fairly good idea (or a few of them) on where to look for Bae. Hell, he was the one that got Henry to Storybrooke somehow, the man knows things.

I also think he has MUCH more planned, he's shown just how good he is at plotting and how very intricate his schemes are that there is no doubt in my mind that he has something big in store. Belle showing up was a major plus for him in that he could have everything now; perhaps have HIS happy ending.

2. It would have been too easy to just bring Bae back from the well. If he could have, i'm sure he would have. I agree that he must have researched so he knows what can and cannot be done with the well's properties.

3. Magic is always neutral, it's all on how you use it. "all magic has a price" and i think the price is that Regina gets her powers back, too. :|

4.I was glad she finally believed. I think it could have transitioned better, at first, but then you have to look at all the circumstances. Yes, she was denying it all around from several sources but she was starting to question it. You know how she hates getting close to others, and i think this is part of that. But when her son is in danger, who risked his life to make her believe, she was desperate for some hope. and that is a VERY crucial step. When you look for hope, you hope for miracles...MAGIC. And now that she was looking for it, hoping and praying for something that could save him, she was desperate enough and open to that option and it finally clicked in her head as she lifted the book.

5. Well, i believe also that Regina does love Henry, albeit in that possessive way of hers. She always wants to win and have HER happy ending when no one else can. Henry was part of that. She had only meant to get Emma out of the way but not at the expense on her own happiness which was Henry. So i'm not surprised she told Emma the truth.

6. I have a very specific reason for why Regina's kiss would not work on Henry. As Rumpel/Gold said "Excuse me, it is HER son" and he believes very strongly in the parental bond and right, given his own experience. But there was more to it.

Despite all of Rumpel's actions, he hinged pretty much everything on Emma and he has stated very firmly several times that he was "invested in her future". He has planned everything before she was born. When he lost Bae originally, he wasn't making the sort of deals he was until after he lost Belle. Because he realized just as Regina had stated "True Love's kiss can break any curse". He may have lost his but it gave him a new sort of hope. He wanted to bottle that. I think he might have wanted to bottle such an essence for several reasons, maybe even for his own "curse" as Bae called it.

I think was determined for this most powerful magic known as "true love" and who did he see was so desperately in love that they would fight Evil Queens and kingdoms? Snow and Charming. He used pieces of them to create it. And, as he told Charming "I'm a big fan of True Love, especially what it creates"...children.

Surely the product of THEIR love would create a rather powerful and magic child. It was even stated that this child would be the savior, most likely because of these properties. You could see why Rumpel would be very interested in that. Being in that Emma is MADE of that magic, it makes since why her kiss would make Graham remember and why kissing Henry would save him. She IS True Love's first kiss.

[ladynomad915.livejournal.com]

And 15 is August still made of wood or is he human again

[seijuro-kasumi.livejournal.com]

7. same as 6 (combined)

8. i...don't know but he found out and knew it would hurt Regina for her biggest hold over Rumpel would be taken from her. Being that Belle is now back with him, you KNOW he's going to want a bit of payback after all these years now knowing she was locked away. He will not be happy. Jefferson wants to see her pay, and he is quite right in thinking that giving more reason for Rumpel to hate her will certainly for a good fight later on.

9. i am curious as to what will happen with him as well, and i wonder if he'll finally go against Regina knowing that she would do this to him. The last we saw of him, he was very sad to know that she would do this to him.

10. He ALWAYS has a plan and it doesn't even come clear what the entirely of that plan is until the end and all his chess pieces are out and he wins in every aspect of it. He is very good at this game and he has the patience to carry it all out.

11. It is very confusing as to what will happen to everyone now that they remember but are still trapped in this world. I don't know what will be the result but it's sure to be interesting.

12. I originally though he would find out about Belle and ask Emma for her help in that but now i'm not sure. There is no telling what he will ask for now.

13. I think it may well be a three way fight, or at least Rumpel and Emma both against Regina as i don't see him wanting to team up with her AT ALL given what she did to Belle. He will not be forgiving in that instance. I too doubt he'll be Big Bad as he always operates for his benefit and it's nothing personal so is never malicious. If it benefits him in the end, fine, if not, he's not going to bother. That's how i see it.

14. I think Belle may have some very strong words for him and scold him. She wanted to break his curse as well because she believed it would free his heart from the greed, so i doubt she'll be very happy but then, it may very well depend on what his goals are that will make Belle react either positively or negatively to the power he is bringing back. Hopefully she can talk him out of anything terrible because she may love him but she won't be happy about him doing bad things. I just hope he doesn't scare her off a second time.

[seijuro-kasumi.livejournal.com]

this also bothered me D:

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. The same way I get everything I want.

Oooh! Good quote and good point. He has steeped in magic for so long it's almost a part of him and of course the first way he would think of to achieve any task.

2. That would have been interesting but much too soon. (Though an excellent way to end season 2.) The writers can write the well's capabilities any way they want but there is no way they are going to make it that easy.

6. I see Emma as the embodiment of True Love. As the product of the same true love that he used to make the potion only her kiss could break the curse. But I think it also had to be true love's kiss as well. After all kissing Graham helped break his curse but not everyone else's.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

7. Only Emma could break the curse but theoretically Regina could have saved Henry. If they had true love - but then Henry doesn't love Regina.

8. Now that you put it that way it is a thing of beauty. She never had the control there. She couldn't use Belle for fear of Gold and all the time someone else was ready to use Belle against her.

9. Yes, there is that! I think we shall miss the Mirror in FTL.

10. I agree he knows people really well to point it seems he can see the future but he is just observing and making predictions. I still love him too. :)

13. King George. I had forgotten about him in Storybrooke but we know he's there and in a position of power. And that the FTL story is going to be the fight against George and Regina. I like the parallels.

14. It was a very hard day for her! I'm willing to cut her some slack. He is so awful at explaining anything to anyone that it is going to be very difficult for him. I see angst in their futures until he figures it out.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

But why? Why not go back if he wants magic and fairytale land. Why come here in the first place? We saw that he made the curse to find Bae - why wouldn't he continue trying to find Bae?

(I'm not trying to be flippant - I'm curious.)

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. I can agree that he probably still feels the need to be on top. Even if the memories of being powerless are faded by now, he is certainly used to being powerful. And having power back is a rush. However, I'll wait until we know what he is going to do with power until I believe it is about the power first rather than about Bae first. He was willing to give up his power in The Stranger when he thought he had Bae. Having Belle would never be enough to deter him - only Bae.

11. I hope not! That would be very unpleasant for the characters and I don't want them all driven mad. Maybe the issue with Jefferson was that the curse kept on trying to rewrite him but it couldn't. With the memory curse gone it shouldn't try to rewrite people anymore so as to change them or make them forget their past.

14. She seemed more confused than anything to me but some annoyance is certainly possible. With any luck he explains things a few minutes later and maybe they can come to an understanding. Now that the power is here she may want him to keep it since Regina has it too.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. I wouldn't be surprised if he has some ideas. I'm sure researching the issue has been a priority for him since Emma showed up. (You know, when he wasn't manipulating her and starting fires and kidnapping people.) However, having magic is going to make the search much easier! And, yes, it is most likely not going to be that simple. The man always has plans within plans and more than one objective. I do wonder what else he wants other than Bae. Will it be something good or something evil for the rest of the population? There is also the matter of Regina - she has now been added into his plans and not in a good way.

2. I keep reading commentary that asks why he didn't ask for Bae and it just seems obvious to me that he couldn't. Even the power of true love in the well couldn't do that.

3. Good point! Regina having her power back is quite the price.

5. Regina is always about winning and winning doesn't count unless it's forever with her. It's not enough to win with the curse. It's not enough to continue winning for 28 years. Forever or nothing. I thought it was telling that she talked about winning in her nightmare. Not being loved or happy - winning.

6. He may believe in the parental bond but that doesn't preclude adoptive parents loving their children as true love. However, we are talking Regina and she may not be able to allow herself to love Henry with no selfishness. (And we have been given no indication he loves her.) Anyway, Emma's kiss was necessary on the large scale since Regina would not do for that no matter what.

I agree that Emma is True Love though I see it more as what he did to bind her into the curse. It's interesting to think of that quality as independent of anything he did - that it is inherent in her parentage and birth. I'm not sure he would need the essence for his own curse though since he knew he was coming here to the land without magic and wouldn't need to negate his curse. Unless he did something silly like bring magic here. *g* And then he wouldn't have the essence anymore. Lucky for him he has Belle and can decurse when needed.

You don't think he started making the curse until after Belle? Or is it that you don't think he tried to bottle true love until then? I personally believe he has been trying for a long time - both the curse and the bottling but it wasn't until Snow and Charming that there was a love strong enough. At that point it moved his plans into high gear and it was time to finish the curse and get it enacted.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

That is a question which unfortunately has no answer yet! I think myself that he is still wood since it wasn't the curse that did it - it was him breaking his deal. Next season he will need a new deal and I wonder if it might not be Rumpel this time who restores him. For a price of course.

[djarum99.livejournal.com]

1. Bringing the magic has to be about finding Bae; the entire finale focused on showing us his machinations and manipulations directed to that end. He's supremely focused, this is the culmination of centuries of planning, and he loves his son. He's hellbent on redemption. He's also someone who lived and breathed magic for much longer than he drew breath as a man; being without it once he regained his memories must have felt like going blind. He became the Dark One because of the fear of losing what he loved, and having found Belle isn't going to change that, or his need for power to conquer that fear. I don't think he's quite ready to be human again, and I hope his story arc continues to reflect that.

2.He was willing to give up power when he thought he had his son but not if he still needs to find him. I believe that, too, despite his love of power as antidote to fear. He was willing to give control to the person he thought was his son, and what a wonderful way to let us see that.

3. I think magic is always neutral in a sense, and that it's who wields it that truly makes the difference. It will be interesting, as you said, to see if magic "found" by true love's essence is different in some way.

4. I think that the fact that Emma had to fight so very hard against the idea was a gauge for how strongly her belief was developing. Seeing it hit her when she opened the book was a powerful moment. And, the message again, that love is stronger than fear, the most powerful magic of all.

5. I'd like to think Regina does love Henry; I just believe that for her, love is so interwoven with pain and loss and her idea of "losing" that it turns very easily into a destructive force. Love has killed more than any disease

6. I vote yes, too. He's planned everything out to the finest detail, and has a preternatural sense of human nature. Don't know if Henry had to die for the kiss to work, but it sure made for a wham-bam storyteller's moment :-)

7. Gold seemed pretty certain in saying it had to be Emma, and I have my doubts when it comes to Regina and love. Hers seems to be of the narcissistic variety - see: killing her father, wanting to have Kathryn killed, locking Maleficent up for 28 years as a dragon, etc., etc.

8. We know that Jefferson watches Storybrooke, so I suspect he might have known that way. And, that nurse he gave the sleepytime tea to wasn't at all surprised to see him down there; not sure if that means anything or not.

9. Someone must let Sydney out. Maybe Nurse Ratched with her FTL memories intact is really a sweetheart (or a fairy), and will take pity on him.

10. Verrrrrry long cons, and I think he really is that good, and has back up plans within back up plans. It really is a very dangerous thing to count yourself among Regina's friends and family - see #7.

11. I can't wait to see how all the characters reconcile their FTL and Storybrooke identities, and yes, Rumpelstiltskin does still pwn the town :-)

12. I've got my own fic uses for Emma's favor, but I'm really curious to see how Rumpelstiltskin is going to get back into her good (or maybe just non-homicidal) graces. He may just have to tell her the truth about his son. I don't think Rumpelstiltskin ever meant to take Ella's child, since his goal was obviously to get thrown into the Charming's dungeon in order to put the finishing touches on his curse plans - he needed Emma's name. But, if Ella has any sense at all, she'd want to confirm that before getting pregnant again.

13. K & H have warned us repeatedly that all hell will break loose when Rumpel finds out Regina took Belle, so I think that will definitely be a factor. I don't believe he'd lose himself in it, though, and I imagine he'll continue to play all sides against the middle to achieve his own ends. That's just how he rolls :-) Belle might have something to say about it all, too; I think we'll see a woman with agency again, once the post-curse haze wears off.

14. See #13 - she will definitely play a role in it all, and I can't wait to see how that works. She's not his housekeeper anymore, they've spoken their love, and she has a set of 21st century memories. Wheeee!

[chloris.livejournal.com]

8. Jefferson may not be able to go after Regina himself but he is smart and Regina should have remembered that. Rumpel is definitely going to want payback.

9. I hope he gets a good arc next season but it all depends on his filming schedule for his other show. We may have to wait a while to see more of him.

10. I love that. I love seeing the end and figuring out all the moves and how he set everything up. I can understand if the other characters don't love it quite as much though.

12. I've thought he would ask Emma to help him find Bae (since that is one of her skills) but it seems rather direct for him so I don't know.

13. Another comment brought up King George and I can see him in the fight! He'd be with Regina with the Charmings on the other side. And Rumpel moving between doing his own thing and hitting Regina where it hurts. Yep, he is always for his own benefit and with his own agenda. He doesn't make a good Big Bad. Not dedicated enough. :)

14. It will be interesting to see him trying to walk the line of continuing his plans while also trying to be good for Belle. I don't know how he is going to balance that.

[seijuro-kasumi.livejournal.com]

for 7: I think, given the sequence i could follow through the series thus far, he was definitely trying to find a way to get to Bae in the other world before her but then after that sequence he went through with Belle, really gave him ideas and exactly what he needed. True Love and the bottling of this magic so powerful that it could break any curse. At least that's how it seemed. After that episode, it seemed to me like his plans surrounding that particular idea and in making deals with Snow and Charming started to increase.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

1. He's also someone who lived and breathed magic for much longer than he drew breath as a man; being without it once he regained his memories must have felt like going blind.

Excellent point. There is no reason it has to be an either/or. Bringing magic is important in finding Bae but it also is a part of him that that part of him seemed very happy to have it back. I suppose that is another reason for him to want not to remember during those 28 years! He would have always been reaching for something he didn't have anymore.

2. Yes. It's one thing to say you are willing to give up your power (and I'm not sure who Gold would even say that to) but it is another to show us that he is not only willing but he'll actually do it. And then good storytelling to take it back since it is way too early for us to have a Rumpel with no power and his happy ending.

6. Sometimes I wonder how he can make such intricate plans and have them work out. And then I remember he is just that awesome. :)

7. It had to be Emma to restore everyone's memories. Only her kiss would do that. (And it is quite obvious Regina had no idea about that.) I agree Regina's love is not unselfish enough though.

10. I'd love to see some evidence of his planning on the show. Perhaps where he is going with plan A and then adjusts to plans B, C, and D. I don't know if you watch Leverage but I enjoy seeing them deal with unexpected obsticles.

12. I think a bit of honesty is needed here. And perhaps having Belle around will help smooth things over. And I completely agree that he never wanted Ella's baby! It was all a plot to get locked up. I've thought this for a while and the more we know about how excellent he is at manipulating events the clearer it is there is no way a plot that was simple was ever going to work unless he chose to walk into it. He even makes it clear to Ella that he knows what is going on and asks her if this is what she wants.

13. I seriously cannot wait to see hell break loose. We have never seen him truly ANGRY. In a rage yes but this goes beyond that by a long shot. Regina double crossed the wrong person. (Actually two wrong people since Jefferson was smart enough to hold the Belle card and know when to use it.) Regina tends to think she can control things and people more than she actually can. Jefferson was never under her thumb as much as she believed he was and Belle was always too dangerous to actually use.

14. Heh. I wonder how he is going to deal with this Belle. He had most of the control before - not all since she was quite willing to push things - but most. At least he also has 21st century memories and won't be too shocked.

[pandorasimp.livejournal.com]

1. I think he needs the magic to find his son. He's had this plan for centuries and bringing magic back is just part of it. How? I don't know but he obviously knows how to plan for the long term.

2. I agree he couldn't use the well to bring back Bae

3. I don't think it is that bad. It depends on what it's used for. At least as a viewer it will makes things a lot more interesting. LOL

4. I totally did not expect it to happen right away. My jaw dropped opened and stayed there for most of the episode.

5. See jaw dropping above. : ) another surprise but it was awesome. I thought she would help Emma to save Henry but I thought she'd try other things first. That she would give up the truth right away says a lot about her love for Henry. This is the first time (Other than before Dead Daniel) that she has put some one else’s needs before her own. So it tells me there is some hope for Regina after all. I still don't think she is able to experience true love either for someone or from someone, just because she has gone too far down that dark path of vengeance.

6. I think Gold knew. I don't think Henry had to die first, but I think Emma had to believe first.

7. No- as stated above I don't think Regina can experience true love. I think she loves Henry as much as she can but that emptiness inside her would prevent the kiss from working. Also I don't think Henry, regardless if he should or not, loves Regina.

8. I think Jefferson is just good at watching and noticing. I'm sure he saw the exchange of the Teacup with Gold and Regina. He can see right into the Sheriffs’ office. Also he might have spent some time in the Mental Dungeon. Either way it makes for interesting fic premises

9. Regina might, since she has no reason to keep him there anymore. Plus she's short on allies.

10. More like A1 - Z500. Lol. Everything he does seem to have a purpose. So I hope that continues.

11. Interesting question. I'm not sure. I think regarding Gold’s Contracts as he won’t be that concerned unless it’s something he needs for his master plan. When you think of how long this has been in the works I doubt collecting rent will matter much to him at this point.

12. I think the favor is to let him go. Emma is going to be very pi**ed off and for good reason. He abandoned her and took the magic that Emma retrieved to save Henry. Even though I’m sure he knew Emma's kiss would save him, I think he's going to have to pull his favor to get off hook

13. Regina will still be a force; I think Rumple will be focused more on finding Bae. His battle is an inner one, but he will still be involved when it suits him. I'd really like to see a new big bad emerge.

14. I don't think she will deter him or influence much. It depends on if she stays with him, which I doubt. I think their reunion, as sweet as it was to see, will be short lived.

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

#1. He wants power. He wants to find Bae, but he also wants power for power's sake. He planned this all along, just like the planned the curse itself all along. Belle made no difference to his plans in this matter. But he will being going after Regina for what she did to Belle next season.

#2. I do agree the well couldn't just materialize Bae in front of him. I also don't think he'd be content with having Bae and not having power. He wants both.

#3. I don't think most magic is, in and of itself, evil. However, the way Regina was smiling at the end isn't looking good for what he's doing being good. Also, very importantly, *Henry* said it was something bad. While he's certainly not all-knowing, I do think the audience is supposed to pay attention to what Henry says. Lastly, remember "The Return" when the Blue Fairy said that the magic that made Rumpel the Dark One didn't belong in this world? I think she said something about that causing a problem? I thought magic that was neutral elsewhere might have been twisted because the environment of their world didn't suit. Magic does not belong to our world. Definitely this magic doesn't. And I wonder if that will cause a problem.

#4. I was surprised Emma believed so quickly. I'm glad she believes, but I do feel rather cheated out getting to see her *adapt* to her new reality. She was so busy with fighting a dragon to save Henry's life, she didn't really get to think about things. And now we'll never see her talking to her unknowing mother, and knowing that's her mom and that sort of thing.

#6. I think he did know the kiss would work, but I don't think he was counting on it. Unless he is psychic, it's too much to count on (not everyone is going to kiss a corpse). I do not think that curse being broken was necessary for him to carry out his next step in the plan - he was already on his way *before* it happened and,if not for Belle being with him to say something, would not have known when the curse broke.

#8. I'd like to know how Jefferson knew where she was. I don't think he helped put her there - doesn't seem logical to me. The only thing that really makes sense is that she was there from day 1 of the curse. No way Regina would risk Gold seeing her out and about town. Besides, Jefferson was not exactly friendly with the Queen and wouldn't do her favors. And if she'd betrayed him then, I'd hope he wouldn't try to deal with her a *third* time.

#11. If they revert to their old personalities (and I think they will) then we call them "Snow White", "Prince Charming", etc. Their identities do not change just because they've changed locations. It will make recaps and conversations a little more confusing, though. How about EFSnow and SBSnow (Enchanted Forest and Storybrooke). Nah, probably not. I'm curious about the chaos in Storybrooke, too. Don't know if they'll really deal with the mundane stuff, though, because I don't know what the Purple Cloud will do. I do not expect anyone to pay Rumpel rent - they didn't actually make deals to do so, so they aren't breaking any contracts.

#12. Actually, if you use "letter of the law" instead of "spirit of the law" (as Rumpel so frequently does), then Emma's in great shape. The term "favor" is just so vague that it can mean anything *she* thinks it means, just so long as she acts before he does.

#3. I'm hoping for the three-way battle. Every time the good guys deal with Rumpel it comes back to bite them in the ass (long-term, if not short-term). Dealing with him gave him the ability to create the curse that separated them from each other and their daughter for 28 years. I really hope they aren't doing so in the future.

14. Beats me. I really don't "get" Belle. I don't know if she knows how horrific a person he really is (with the murdering and cursing and all) and I don't know if she'd care if she did know. Or if she'd be all "oh, there's good deep down, I just have to get to it."

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

#1. Oh, I agree completely. Not surprising, though, since I'm probably the "unlimited opportunities" person - I've said some variation of that several times. If it was someone else, then I agree with them too.

#3. I referenced this in another post. Magic isn't native to this world. Is it a world that needs magic (as Jefferson mentioned)? OTOH, the Blue Fairy indicated that the Dark One magic came from another world: does magic get corrupted when it crosses worlds? Or was that just bad magic that happened to find it's way to the Enchanted Forest?

#11. I kind of expect most of the pre-Emma memories to fade into (sorry) a haze. Like a dream (or nightmare) they've awoken from. The curse is no longer maintaining the false identities, so they don't have to struggle with both identities. But I'm not all sure. It could go the other way, with everyone feeling at war with themselves.

#13. I get what you saying. I think it might come from a difference in how we define villain. To me, someone who kill and hurts innocents and has no regard for them is a villain. Yes, he's out for himself. Regina's out for herself, too. Worshipping the powers of evil isn't necessary to be evil - actions alone make one evil/a villain.

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

Oh, I meant to say. I completely agree with the inferiority complex bit. And that he is fundamentally a coward (which both Bae and Belle called him). Then he became a coward with power. And he remembers his feelings of powerlessness and doesn't ever want to feel that way again. So he has to make sure *no one* can ever have power over him again, like you said. So he has to become the *most* powerful. And that's what I think he's trying to do (while keeping Belle and finding Bae).

[akinarei.livejournal.com]

Wasn't it Regina who made the decision to send all the fairy-tale characters to our world?

Let's be clear about the curse: it doesn't specify that they'll go somewhere, just that time will be frozen and memories submerged.

And Rumplestiltskin never said that he made the curse to find Bae; I think that's what we construe from the fact that Bae was lost to another realm-- that episode never said he came to our world, either-- just that he went to a place with no magic. That doesn't necessarily mean our world or indeed, our time period.

When I re-watched the episode, he never gave a reason for creating the curse, just that he'd created it and used a drop of true love on the parchment. I think the reasoning for creating that curse is still unknown.

[ladynomad915.livejournal.com]

I just thought a 16.

Can people now leave storybrooke without gettiing in a accdent

[chloris.livejournal.com]

3. Yes, as a viewer I'm completely behind this twist. If I'm looking at it from the character's viewpoints, it is a bit more problematic but still not necessarily a bad thing.

8. I remembered that he had a telescope looking right in the sheriff's office but I wonder what he could have made of the teacup conversation. He must have known a great deal before even if it gave him another piece of the puzzle.

10. Heh. I might have been a bit low in my estimates on how many plans and alternates he has. We only see the plans which pay off but who knows how many possibilities there were that never made it.

11. I don't know! I guess we'll find out how important it is for no one to ever break a deal with him. (He may need to enforce smaller deals like rent so that no one thinks they can get out of larger deals.) Also, with magic involved they may not be able to not pay the rent without magical consequences - similar to when Prince Thomas disappeared after Ella signed the contract. Rumpel didn't have to do anything, the magic took care of it.

12. Will she have any choice though to let him go? He is RUMPELSTILTSKIN and has a hell of a lot of power at his disposal. I'm sure he will have to deal with a significant amount of mistrust and lack of cooperation but I'm not sure if she could do anything to him.

14. I think there will be ups and downs with them but I do hope they are going with a positive story for them. I want my happy endings!

[chloris.livejournal.com]

2. Then what do you think about The Return? He gave August the dagger and told him to destroy it since he didn't need it if he had Bae. I see that as him having a chance to give up his power and being willing to take it. Without the dagger he is no longer the Dark One and wouldn't have power.

3. From what I can tell Regina is smiling because she now has power too. Not that the power itself is evil but that she is and she can use it to continue her revenge. Henry does say it is something bad and it DOES look bad but I guess we will have to wait until next season to know for sure.

4. I hope we get some of Emma coming to terms with all this when things continue. She didn't have much time to process things and simply had to keep moving but I'm sure there will be time to think later.

6. He may not be psychic (and conversely he may be) but he devises exceeding complex plans taking place over years and has them all work out for him. There is nothing I won't put past him as far as knowing exactly how to get everyone and everything just where he wants them. I agree that it seems he would not have known the curse broke without Belle but we have no idea if he had another way to know and simply didn't need it. And he may have wanted to be in position at the right time for potion which would mean getting there before it broke. Or...all he needed was the potion and everything else was extraneous. *shrug*

8. Oh, I don't mean he put her into the asylum. I agree she was always there since Storybrooke was created. However, depending on timelines he could have been available to help capture her in the first place. In Fairytale Land.

11. He has rental contracts with everyone. They may not have planned to make those deals but it doesn't mean they won't be enforced. And I would be very cautious about breaking deals with a newly empowered Rumpel. Watch the writers completely ignore the issue though. :)

13. They may want to fight him but it doesn't mean he will fight them. He has other goals and I can see him sidestepping the whole issue as much as possible. And, if that's the case, it makes sense for the Charmings to focus on the one who wants them dead.

[chloris.livejournal.com]

No, I don't believe so. The destination appears to be part of the curse. And Gold not being shocked to find Bae (as he thought) means he believes they are in the correct world and only he would want to send everyone there.

This episode doesn't go into why he made the curse but the The Return does lay it out fairly well. In The Return he vows to do nothing else and love nothing else until he finds a way to find Bae. He also gets the idea of a curse from the Blue Fairy then. It is not explicitly stated but it is certainly implicit from those scenes that he made the curse to go to the world where Bae went. And, yes, a world with no magic doesn't have to mean ours or the present time but I don't believe Rumpel would spend centuries at this and not get it right. That would not be like him at all.

[tamlover.livejournal.com]

What do I think of "The Return"? I think Rumpel already had *this* plan in the works, too. It's been in the works since before the curse.

He *has* contracts with them, but they didn't *make* the contracts. They didn't *agree*. The contracts were created, as is, by Regina when Storybrooke was created. If anyone is breaking a deal when they don't honor those contracts, it's Regina, not the "renters". They are not breaking deal with Rumpel, because they never *made* deal with Rumpel. It's like my neighbor drawing up and signing a contract between me and the guy down the street - I had nothing to do with it and am not violating any rules by refusing abide by it.

I'm not saying Rumpel will necessary fight them. But, if he is doing bad things and hurting innocent people (as he very frequently did in the past), then they *will* most likely try to stop him. And, even if they ignore him, I still fervently hope the don't work with him. It's just pushing their problems until later.