abc_onceupon | Questions/Discussion Points for The Crocodile

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Questions/Discussion Points for The Crocodile

I'm running a bit late this week but I've finally put up my long review of the episode and I have my questions and discussion points.

1. So Baelfire's magic bean was not in fact the LAST magic bean. (The Blue Fairy is unclear in The Return. She tells Baelfire the bean is the very last one that is known to their kind and the others got away from them. And tells Rumpelstiltskin there are no more magic beans. And then says she never lies. Hmmm.) Since there are more beans and Blue knows it even if not where they are, why not send the Dark One in search of them instead of in search of a curse? Also, this bean goes to Neverland so there is speculation that the previous one did too. Do you think Bae went to Neverland or do the beans go to a destination based on your desires?

2. Why was Hook dropped into what's left of FTL while Smee (and possibly other members of the crew) ended up in Storybrooke? I hope they clear that up soon because I believe there is some sort of underlying logic but I can't see it yet.

3. Was Hook all that you hoped for the character or did he fall flat? This was only his origin story so I hope for more evidence of VILLAINY rather than more prosaic thuggery in future episodes. Of course, I've had the thought of wishing that Milah had become Captain Hook (kill the boyfriend and cut off her hand) so now I'm a bit sad for what might have been. No one can fight like exes. :)

4. Oh, and WHAT is the spelling of Milah's name? Milah? Milha? Milla? Some other variation? I've seen so many ways to spell it and I don't know which one is right! It's driving me nuts. I thought it was Milah so I've been spelling it that way but now I'm not sure.

5. Ruby has her scent tracking ability back. Does that mean she has her 'turn into a wolf' ability back? The cloak is probably in town somewhere and I think finding it might just be in everyone's best interest.

6. Maurice is now in heavy contention for the Worst Parent Ever award (though with Cora, Henry Sr., Milah, Rumpel, Jiminy's parents and others I don't think he'll win first place) with his little stunt of deciding to erase Belle's memories. Was this really such desperate situation that talking to her for more than 30 seconds was impossible? Or with his own memories back is he so used to ordering people about that he fell into bad habits? I hope we see him apologize and mend his relationship with her.

7. Beyond wiping her memories, how did he intend to get her back? To him was dead better than in love with Rumpelstiltskin? She was manacled to a mine cart and would end up over the town line (since that's the point). No one in town could go get her without losing their own memories and there was no guarantee she would be able to get the cuff off even if she hadn't lost the key. Or that she would go back to town rather than wander into the woods. I don't think this was thought through well. And now I understand how Rumpel could believe Regina's tale in Skin Deep. It's not so far fetched anymore.

8. Belle now has a great, big target on her back. Do you think she'll last the season? Killing her does seem the perfect revenge for Hook. I hope she gets a chance to help save herself and isn't the damsel again though.

9. What did you think of Belle&Red developing a friendship? And her new job in the library? It seems the writers are planning on integrating her into the cast and giving her more story than being Rumpelstiltskin's girlfriend. Considering that this is her second post-curse appearance I think they moved her story along fairly quickly.

10. This is the first Rumpelstiltskin backstory episode not written by Jane Espenson. Instead it was written by David H. Goodman (Hat Trick, The Price of Gold and What Happened To Frederick?). Were you happy to see someone else's spin on the character or did you miss the continuity of having the same writer?

11. I'm odd and one of my favorite parts of the episode was getting a look at the interior of Gold's house. I can't be the only one who wants his kitchen can I? Also, what was going on in the Belle/Gold relationship that she felt the need to climb out the window rather than walk out the door?

12. Did you miss Emma, Snow, and Regina in the episode? Was it better to focus on part of the cast rather then split up the story more by including everyone?

13. Lastly, what is the chance that Cora and Hook will make to Storybrooke first and be disguised as Snow and Emma? That would the perfect way to cause maximum mischief and pain before anyone even knows what is going on.

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And we already know that the Blue Fairy lies, i.e., she let Gepetto get away with the deal that involved telling Snow / Charming that the wardrobe would only carry one person safely from FTL to escape the curse. She's willing to bend / break whatever rules she sees necessary -- the question remains what exactly that means.

And it was convenient that she didn't have time to make a quick stop to tell Snow the truth. Hmmmm.

She changes her story too often! She tells Bae that this is the only bean they have on hand and tells Rumpel that there are no more beans. And then, yeah, there's Geppetto and lying to Snow and Charming. I won't say she's villainous but there is either something going with her more than we know or she is the victim of really bad writing.

well, if Bae used the only bean the fairies had, then her statement to Rumplestiltskin is technically true.

Smee never said where he found that other bean - nor did Milah (only remarked that it was curious the Dark One wanted a bean)

1. I believe that The Crocodile happened before Baelfire was sent into our world. The FTL story isn't going in chronological order each episode.

2. I think that's probably going to end up being a plotpoint for this season since Snow and Emma are asking the same question in FTL.

4. ABC.com has it listed as "Milah" so that's the official spelling :)

5. I think this may end up being a plot point in future episodes. I hope so, anyway, because I need more werewolf!Ruby on my TV xD

7. I think only part of the mines go past the town border. It probably loops back around elsewhere in Storybrooke (that was my assumption anyways).

9. I think making her the librarian is perfect! Also, I'm kind of glad that her storyline isn't being super dragged out, although I was never a big fan of BATB, so I'm a little biased xD

12. I actually liked that they broke away from the main characters and fleshed out the minor characters a bit more. Last season I kind of felt like it was All About The Charmings and everyone else was just space-fillers. Glad they're starting to branch out!

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>and he seems like he's projecting a whole lot with Milah with the whole 'you abandoned him!' thing,
well, yes, he was projecting - but she *did* abandon Bae.
Rumplestiltskin outright said that he could understand Milah leaving *him*...but that she would leave Bae was what ticked him off.

...so, a lot of both.

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very true.

back when this episode aired, one of my first comments was basically "if they had moved away - the three of them - like Milah had asked him to, would she have stayed with them, once they were somewhere his cowardice wasn't known?"

though, I grant that Rumplestiltskin and Bae could still have left the area after Milah had gone off. (given Rumplestiltskin's newfound reputation and powers, Bae might have welcomed that)

1) Oh, I guess I don't remember that. xD

12) Exactly! I'm glad they're fleshing out other stories :)

>1.
the first part of the episode, with finding Milah in the bar with Hook, was before the death of Zoso the Dark One. the rest of the episode, after the transfer of power.

>7.
which begs the question...who dug the mine?

7) Well, I mean before the curse was broken, people could cross Storybooke's border to an extent before without losing their memory. They just couldn't leave permanently. I mean, remember MM went searching for Katherine out in the woods?

excellent point. (and I'm very glad this is a 'raptor-free site)

...but, given how long it took Emma and Katherine to drive out to the "now leaving storybrooke" sign, I imagine the town boundaries cover quite a bit of land.

which means one thing: Storybrooke is like a TARDIS!
bigger on the inside.

(Right? Raptors are jerks.)

I mean, Storybrooke is supposed to "house" FTL characters from all kinds of realms, so I get the impression that it's way larger than it seems.

LOL! ~~Or Harry Potter's tent~~

well, certainly not as prone to sharing their ~~kills~~ parties with others.

agreed.
the one thing left up in the air (and should this get its own discussion thread?) is this: how many fairytale (and legendary) figures are part of FTL's historical record?

*g* (I'll take your word on that tent)

1. Yeah, Smee knew the whole story about the bean and it would make sense that he would want a bean after Bae is lost. Before that he didn't want to go anywhere else.

2. I'm just getting impatient. *g* I want to know now. *stamps foot*

5. Yes! Make it so! I very much want another Red!centric episode.

7. It was left conveniently vague. However, Smee gave her a key which means he was planning that she would let herself out meaning no one else was likely to be able to help her. A bad plan all around.

12. At this point the Charming story is well established and they can pull back a bit. Which is good I agree since I want to see all the characters have a turn. Also I like that Charming by himself is getting some development. Rumpel was getting rather lonely as the only independent male character.

>4.
my Closed Captioning said Milah. so that's how I've been spelling it hence.

>6.
what I want, more than almost anything, is to get an ep focusing on Henry Sr.

>7.
>how did he intend to get her back? To him was dead better than in love with Rumpelstiltskin?
in Skin Deep, he seemed reluctant to let Belle sacrifice herself to Rumplestiltskin, even if it was for the safety of the dukedom. (yes, sacrifice)

...in Crocodile and earlier s2 Moe eps, Moe seems genuinely regretful that he let Belle go, even if the sacrifice was Belle's choice. (parents protect, which is another theme of the show)

...and now Moe learns that Belle doesn't want to return to Rumplestiltskin so people will be protected - she wants to return to Rumplestiltskin because she loves Rumplestiltskin (who is effectively the closest thing in FTL or Storybrooke to the Devil or Sauron or Cthulhu - and most parents wouldn't want their kids dating those)

>11.
if I had to guess, I'd say it's because that's the classic "I'm running away, and I don't want you to know until I've got a bit of distance"...though it would be typical-er(sp) with someone Henry's age.

6. I'm sure they will get to that so long as the show continues! A Henry origin story would be good to help explain both Cora and Regina so it would definitely be worthwhile.

7. There is being reluctant to allow your child to sacrifice her freedom to save everyone, while ultimately giving in, and deciding that her person is not worthy of respect because she has made a choice you disagree with. She told him she was not being held against her will and he decided to force her to obey him without even being willing to discuss the matter for more than a few seconds.

11. It was just odd! We know he is not with her every moment of the day since has still been in his shop. And we also know that if she tells him off and leaves he will accept that.

>6.
explanation of either of them (Cora or Regina) would be great.

but I'd be happy with just Henry Sr. (why he puts up with all the stuff, and stays with them - as two examples)

>7.
>and deciding that her person is not worthy of respect because she has made a choice you disagree with
aren't victims of Stockholm Syndrome generally put into therapy - whether they want it or not?
(though given that the only therapist in Storybrooke is a conscious(sp), probably not very helpful)

it would likely be one thing if Belle had fallen in love with Mr. Gold. But Belle fell in love with Rumplestiltskin instead.

>and he decided to force her to obey him
no, he decided to force her to forget both him and Rumplestiltskin. there's no "obey" there.

>11.
maybe Belle didn't trust herself to say goodbye and leave? (fearing he would say something that would convince her to stay?)

1) It's probably based on the owner's wish. Bae wants a land where there's no magic to save his father. Hook wants a land where he doesn't age and can plan his revenge on Rumpel. Though I could buy that certain beans from certain areas went specific places and Bae's bean went to our world while Hook's was specifically for Neverland.

3) I thought Hook was cute but as I got into the episode, I really wanted to know more about Milah and her backstory. I hope we can still somehow get more info on Milah's backstory and why she did the things she did.

5) Apparently, there's an episode coming up that deals with this issue, so there's a good chance that Wolf!Red is making a comeback.

6) I think Maurice is just used to using Belle this way. Her reaction strikes me of years of seeing him do things he thinks are in her best interest and she finally just snaps after this latest (and really horrid) event mixed in with Rumpel pulling the same thing. I do wish though they played out Belle accepting him back into her life for a little longer though.

7) I think he just made a last minute scheme doing what he thought was best failing to grasp that Belle would be very screwed for all the above reasons you give. Does not excuse what he did but it does make him very human.

8) I'm very torn. On the one hand the creators are former LOST writers so death for Belle could easily be in the cards. On the other, Belle is a big appeal for certain fans and it's hard to gauge if fans will leave if she dies and how many will leave if that happens. The writers might not want to kill her off too early because of that.

9) I actually really liked seeing Belle's story move so fast. There's only so much you can do with the BadGuy/GoodWoman reunited after a long time apart storyline. Especially when Belle has no other close contacts beyond her dad. I look forward to the Red/Belle friendship developing and how Belle starts fitting into Storybrooke.

10) I did not know that actually so there was no worry about how Rumpel would be handled. Overall, I did like the story. Would have loved more Milah but I loved the peeks into her life/relationship with Rumpel, so I was very pleased.

11) Do not talk to me about how much I want his kitchen. Or his bedroom. On the other hand, it says alot about how Belle views Rumpel if she thinks leaving through the window is the best plan rather than talking out about leaving or just leaving through the front door without alerting him.

12) I really prefer this method of storytelling by the writers to be honest. The plot is moving at a great pace and we also get insight into characters that were relegated to the background last season unless they had their "Lower Deck Episode". I know some people want The Charmings, Emma, and/or Regina all the time/every time but I want to get to know every character in the show beyond that one spotlight episode. Huge casts with interesting backstories are my catnip and I feel that last season, while good, did suffer from the writers trying to cram to much into the episodes that made them fall a little flat.

Long story short: I want them to keep this format for a long time.

13) Hook & Cora might get there with Snow & Emma (plus Aurora & Mulan) and that would mean even more fireworks then. I want to see all the chaos they do.

When Rumplestiltskin finally killed Milah, was it before or after Bae's disappearance? It must have been after, if he wanted the magic bean.

1. I think Bae's bean ended up in Storybrook tbh.

2. I'm sure they'll clear it up, because as of now it doesn't make sense.

3. I actually was pleased with hook. I expected a little bit more of badassery, but perhaps he'll show more of it in later episodes.

4. Milah seems to be the appropriate spelling!

5. This will be answered in another episode soon. :)

6. I think Maurice thought that this was the only way possible to save his daughter. He should definitely apologize, but for now I'm really glad Belle took a stand.

7. Who knows?

8. I think she'll be used against Rumple. He does have a soft spot for Belle after all.

9. I loved their interaction! It was really sweet. I'm glad that she got a job at the library!

10. I thought it was interesting writing.

12. I like it when the focus is on other characters. Other characters have a right to development. Especially since they've got such a huge cast!

13. Hmm, there's a strong possibility of that.

Still catching up on everything so I'm a bit late on this, but none-the-less.

1. I think it's based on the users desires. Bae said specifically that he was going to a land without magic (I think that was the wording) so I really do think he's in our world. I suspect we'll learn more about magic beans in future though - it seems important, so hopefully we'll get more answers then.

2. Good question. I've been wondering this all season. I really hope we find out more about the mechanics of this soon - it feels important.

3. I would like to see more focus on Hook. Most of what we saw of him was from Rumpel's POV so I feel like we really don't *know* him yet.

5. Oh, I hope so. I'm looking forward to more Ruby/Red. I'm really loving what we have seen of her so far this season. What do you wanna bet Gold has her cloak somewhere in his shop? Either that or it's in Regina's vault somewhere...

7. His plan made no sense. I'm going to just go with the explanation that he was acting emotionally and not rationally and therefore didn't think it through because SO MANY FLAWS!

8. I think we've only seen the beginning of Belle's strength. And they did just make her a regular so it wouldn't make sense to kill her off so quickly. That being said, I'm sure they'll put her in jeopardy again and for sure Hook is going to take a keen interest in her.

9. Love, love LOVE Red and Belle's friendship. I want to see more of this in future for sure. I also love the library, it's another opportunity for her to become integrated with the rest of the town since I'm sure everyone will be keen to visit it library given it's been closed well, forever.

11. Oh god his kitchen was MARVELOUS! Want so badly.

12. I did a bit, but not as much as I did in Episode 2 when we knew they were in jeopardy. I am hoping we'll see them this week though.

13. Oooh that's an interesting theory. And also horrifying. No matter how it's done, their arrival in Storybrook is going to be all kinds of bad!

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Questions/Discussion Points for The Crocodile

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